New from Ga

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Whiskeybent
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New from Ga

#1

Post by Whiskeybent »

Hello fellas,

Just found your site a few days ago and hands down this is the best site for the aluminum boat guy on the web. I'm a skinny water 'luminum jet guy, but the info posted here on boat building is very beneficial to me. I own a steel fabrication business here in Ga and can build a 300 ton 10 story building, but I'm lost as last years Easter egg when it comes to a 900lb aluminum boat..... :banghead:

I'll be lurkin..
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Sabs28
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Re: New from Ga

#2

Post by Sabs28 »

ANOTHER East Coast member!!!!! WOW!!!! Thats 2 in 1 day. :thumbsup: :highfive: :clap: :beer: A couple hundred more & we will catch up to all the members from West Coast :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: Welcome to AAB. Lots of Knowledge on this forum. So feel free to ask while you lurk.
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Re: New from Ga

#3

Post by welder »

Welcome to AAB , ask away and enjoy.
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goatram
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Re: New from Ga

#4

Post by goatram »

Welcome :thumbsup:

No drama here but the one short wearing FL Boy called Jetty. Location Nazzi :deadhorse:
John Risser aka goatram
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Re: New from Ga

#5

Post by pjay9 »

goatram wrote:Welcome :thumbsup:

No drama here but the one short wearing FL Boy called Jetty. Location Nazzi :deadhorse:
I'LL RAISE A GLASS TO THAT! WELCOME, IT IS FUN HERE! CAPT PJ :beer:
2009 Raider 185 Pro Fisherman, 2005 90Yamaha, 2012 Yamaha9.9HT, 2008 EzLoader roller, 2004 Dodge TCD dually, 2005/2015 Lance1161
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JETTYWOLF
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Re: New from Ga

#6

Post by JETTYWOLF »

welcome.......100 more southerners and we may have this forum licked!

Let's talk jets, skinny water, and cypress knees, over a cold PBR, and a strong chew. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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goatram
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Re: New from Ga

#7

Post by goatram »

I can talk like that as well with my tongue stuck down in front of my lower teeth. My time in South Georgia (Valdosta) gave me a little drawl too. I am a Damn Yankee that went west. Now we gotta talk about the PBR thou.

:beer:
John Risser aka goatram
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Master of R&D aka Ripoff and Duplicate
kmorin
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Re: New from Ga

#8

Post by kmorin »

Whiskeybent,
glad you 'unlurked' long enough to mention you're here, welcome to the AAB.com home of the welded Miracle Metal boat!

If you have a fab company, there's no reason not to tune up one of your welders and two or three fitters and build a nice jet sled? I'm willing to help with a design exercise if we can post it here for others to follow? I've built some sleds using the 454 (old) block and 3stage Hamilton pumps; and did one re-power with a 3208 TA CAT and a 12" single stage pump. They all move pretty well, so I could help if you're interested in 'getting out of the stands and on the field'?

No cost- to design and provide building guidance as long as we get (faithful) posts of all work here for the members to read.
Let me encourage you :beer: ....don't just lurk: get out there and build a boat from the finest metal on the periodic table.....

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, Ak
kmorin
Whiskeybent
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Re: New from Ga

#9

Post by Whiskeybent »

kmorin wrote:Whiskeybent,
glad you 'unlurked' long enough to mention you're here, welcome to the AAB.com home of the welded Miracle Metal boat!

If you have a fab company, there's no reason not to tune up one of your welders and two or three fitters and build a nice jet sled? I'm willing to help with a design exercise if we can post it here for others to follow? I've built some sleds using the 454 (old) block and 3stage Hamilton pumps; and did one re-power with a 3208 TA CAT and a 12" single stage pump. They all move pretty well, so I could help if you're interested in 'getting out of the stands and on the field'?

No cost- to design and provide building guidance as long as we get (faithful) posts of all work here for the members to read.
Let me encourage you :beer: ....don't just lurk: get out there and build a boat from the finest metal on the periodic table.....

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, Ak
kmorin.... That's an awesome offer! You have my attention. I like postin pichers too..

What I'm wanting to build is a 60" x .190 bottom, 16'-17' boat with either a 1200cc jet ski engine or the old standby outboard jet.... still pondering the engine decision. Outboards are quick and simple vs the inboards which I know nothing about.

This would be a lightweight, shallow draft, shallow water boat with a extremely tough bottom for the frequent hits from the slow moving Ga water that doesn't always show rocks well. You think this is doable? Again, THANKS for the offer of help.
kmorin
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Jet boat concept

#10

Post by kmorin »

Whiskeybent,
sure its doable, and to get things moving a bit why don't you make some basic choices and layout a 'design brief' of the boat. A design brief is a guiding statement that puts the priorities in order and is what you refer to when you make future decisions. If the brief is not fixed now, when a decision comes up later there's no really good way to choose the left or right fork in the decision tree.

I'd suggest there are two main hull forms most associated with shallow water jet boats. One is the jonboat/sled/garvey like shape with a flat bottom relatively shallow sides, often open, and a wide(er) scooped bow http://www.riverwildboats.com/boats.html and the other general shape is more agile and more highly formed for maneuverability- especially tight(er) turns. http://shotgunboats.com/sprintboats.html

While both these links are just examples, they sort of refer to two general hull shapes, one, the sled usually has longer parallel chines, regardless of the bottom shape between the chines. This means the hull will not turn as fast as the slightly tapered or curved (plan view) chines of the sprint boats, which is one of the factors that allow them to be so agile in maneuver.

The second major decision is probably the type of pump you're considering. Axial flow pumps, inboard and the Merc pump-pac (I think?) are one type and outboard add-on pumps are centrifugal pumps but they don't have axial (inline) flow. The two will run on similar hulls but the inboard/axial pump is bolted to the bottom in a distinctive 'jet plate' and is usually done in a purpose designed bottom.

The outboard pumps will also work with a recess in the bottom that allows the draft of the overall hull to be shallow but a 'deep water' channel to exit the hull to allow the fragile cast aluminum housing to be just above the hull's bottom plane and still have full flow into the pump suction.

So a 3/16" bottom small jet powered welded boat is very 'doable' and the first decisions are to decide the general hull type and the power so you can relate those two priorities into a rough sketch.

It'd a good idea to get some welding related planning going at the same time. I'd define who is going to weld the boat? What equipment is available? What skill level is available and begin to plan what training is going to be needed to get your welder (whoever that will be) ready to do the hull. Its best if you have both MIG and TIG power supplies and both types of welding experience and "heavy iron" steel welders do not (necessarily) have the needed skills to weld the implied aluminum materials.

I do know that welders will generally all say they can weld "Anything but the Crack of Dawn; and a Broken Heart" but then they're welders and will say anything to get a job! (I always do) But if they can't show you the welds, or if you're doing the welding(?) you have not done a few hundred hours in these alloys, then some practice is in order!

a design brief might read: "A 17' LOA boat of the jon boat type, open with a foredeck 4' fore and aft and internal seating for three adults; powered by an inboard engine 1200cc and axial flow water jet pump with a sit-down, central helm console. The hull and engine with full fuel (30 gallons) will weigh approx 650lb. (or whatever) and be based on a 60" wide bottom panel of 0.187" 5086 H-116 marine aluminum and 0.125" topsides."

cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin
Whiskeybent
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Re: New from Ga

#11

Post by Whiskeybent »

kmorin, a month or so ago I came up with the notion that I was gonna build a boat so I built a hull jig/frame so I could easily lay thin plywood in the floor of the jig and mark the bow cuts then use the plywood for the templates. I actually have the plywood cut and pieced together with tie-wire. About the time I finished the templates we ran into several fair-sized projects so it has been on the back burner for the last few weeks.

Plus, I was at a stopping point until I figured out how and what the inner structure of the boat should be. I have been studying every picture I could find on the internet that showed anything about the structure of a boat, which sometimes leaves me more confused than when I started.

The basic design of the boat is more in line with the Riverwild link you posted.

* Jonboat/Sled design
* 4 degree deadrise
* 16'-17' in length
* 60" bottom
* 84" beam
* Center console located immediatly behind front casting deck
* Outboard jet powered(Thinking it will simplify things)
* Lightweight as possible
* 1/2" UHMW bottom


As far as welding equipment goes, I have one spoolgun, it was purchased after years of guys calling the office asking..."Can you weld aluminum".... we'd always answer no, sorry. So a few years ago I got set up to weld aluminum and I don't think anyone has asked if we could weld aluminum since........ :banghead: But on the bright side, I have brand new equipment to work with and if needed a tig rig could be aquired. We'll have to refresh some welding skills for sure.

When I get back to work on Monday I'll post some pics and show what I have so far and see if it's going in the right direction or completely jumped the tracks.

Thanks again,
kmorin
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Sled Contruction

#12

Post by kmorin »

Whiskeybent,
sounds like you're getting geared up, all the steps will be of some help but the pictures would make that guess a fact. Welding wise, what power supply to do have for the spool gun and what model is the gun, that helps to understand some practice exercises.

Deciding how 'finished' the boat will be, the extent that you will be 'dolling up' the boat would help to decide if TIG is critical. I cannot build without a TIG torch because I'm not willing to accept MIG corners on a skiff. But... many hundreds of boats are build each year without TIG and there is no reason you can't decide to go that route either.

Next, framing a sled is not final and fixed, if the frame plus the welded hull will hold the weight/forces in both directions then its adequate and if it flexes or fails then its not. Sounds easy- but there are some steps that can be made insure its strong enough.

But before you finalize the bottom I'd ask you to draw both a 4 degree deadrise/angled bottom and a curve over the same 5' and see the difference? One tries to hold the bottom panels, 30" keel to chine, relatively flat while the cambered bottom tries to treat the entire bottom panel as a cylindrical section. If you will be pressing the bottom panel; implying access to a >15' bed press brake or sheet fold, then the V or angled bottom may be more feasible. If you cutting then re-welding the entire bottom out of two separate 30" plates, then the effort to make a very shallow V, instead of a camber, is a little out of proportion to the handling and performance results.

Next a question about the 1/2" plastic sheet bottom!!!!????? if the surface of the material is all that can 'slip or slide' why not consider a thinner sheet more easily attached, shaped, replaced, and much less weight?

Also in the boat if lightweight is super critical ?? then I'd consider making the bottom of 1/8 as well, since you're planning a 'wear surface' the composite bottom of some plastic and some aluminum is surely stiffer than just the aluminum? Could the wear strips be put on external hull longitudinal shapes instead of full sheet? If so, the externals could provide excellent handling capabilities and steering AND they could be the location of the strips of plastic as wear surfaces?

I'd consider folding the after bottom upward in a centerline 'tunnel' to allow an adjustment to the shape of the wake to accommodate the jet extension on the outboard. Since the boat is metal this can be designed in, then removed and replaced if you move to inboard jet in the future.

I'll assume that if you don't have forming equipment in-house; you have good access to shops that could shear, press, roll and otherwise form material for your design?

Just things to think about as you move a little closer to buying and cutting metal.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
kmorin
Whiskeybent
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Re: New from Ga

#13

Post by Whiskeybent »

I'll have to check on the power supply when I get back to work, I haven't seen it in quite a while, it's been buried in a corner collecting dust. I do know it is a 180 amp Lincoln of some sorts.

As far as the shearing, forming and rolling, it is all outsourced. I had tossed around the idea of transfering my patterns to cad and letting my supplier burn them out, then bend the deadrise, or, cut them out in our shop and then send to the press brake. I have nothing to cut aluminum with, but seems I read on here that it can be cut with jigsaws and circular saws?

As far as the 1/2" UHMW and the .190 bottom, that's what folks around here are buying now days for a solid boat that will take the 25 mph impacts that sometimes just comes out of nowhere...Kind of a 4-wheel drive boat...LoL. I guess if I have to sacrifice the light weight on the bottom I'll have to try and save some weight somewhere else maybe. The lighter weight and the UHMW also comes in real handy when trying to push a stuck boat off a sandbar.

Take a look at the bottom of these boats, it's what I'm looking for. http://www.rockproofboats.com/hullconstruction.html
Whiskeybent
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Re: New from Ga

#14

Post by Whiskeybent »

Here is what I have so far.

Everything is loosely tacked together. Disregard the length at transom end, it needs another two feet added.

Image

Image

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kmorin
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sled jig!!!

#15

Post by kmorin »

Whiskeybent,
that is one very impressive jig!!! I've never used anything that extensive before, and just as a note you don't need it to build a small skiff as they will almost self-jig, but it sure will allow you to tack up without too much difficulty!

I'd go ahead and put tape on the inside surfaces so you don't scratch the aluminum too much putting sheets in and pulling the skiff out of that fixture.

If you note the 'v' is so slight that a camber will do as well or better in this shape's bottom (body plan) section view? That is: the v at that angle is so minimal there is no real effect over a cup/camber/curved bottom section and the bottom sheet is so narrow you can take the entire piece from on sheet using an 'orange peel' cut at the bow and fold the sheet without any keel seam in the after 2/3-1/2 of the hull.

Deciding what sheer extrusion or topsides edge material will fair the hull is also important since your jig sides are so tall, the jig and the 'sheer liner' member may interfere?

Not sure if its the ply edges (?) or the tack wire but the forward 2' of the chine is not fair so there may need some layout checks on your sides and bottom cuts, but that could be a shift in the seam's fit not the cut? Anyway that seam shows some unfair curves but they may be in the tie wire positions not the edges?

Chees,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin
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