Well.... there is no place to change ones PW...is there..??? I tryed my PW a dozen or more times and i was rejected entry...
So to tell me something like who told you to change my PW... are you kidding... The system finally gave me a password
as I don't want some system to have that option... I simply want to change my PW..
I tryed adding a picture and made it smaller then the site refused to add the picture... if this is the trouble im going to have...Why bother... Help me make some sense of it all...
Found the password change page...You know what....!!! it will not give me that PW that i want... THE BS AND AGGRAVATION
ISN'T WORTH THE TIME...
stringers
Re: stringers
That is some Very nice T-top work.AcctTwrs wrote:
Re: stringers
Ooops! competition...AcctTwrs wrote:GandRfab... You posted it... so I got to ask... What is " completion " sorry had to ask... just screwin wit ya
So there are some pictures for you to absorb... damn thing wouldn't take them at first. they had to be a certain size
got a lesson on resizing on photobucko... what a pain...got some mo pictures too...
For those of you wondering why the sides so low..???? It's going to be the biggest flats boat (backwater) you ever saw..
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kmorin
- Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
- 15
- Location: Kenai, Alaska
tower/console
AcctTwrs
the tube work looks flawless. My only remark is a design question.
If the you spent the time and effort to make sweet harmonious bends to the two different sized horizontals just above the console, why didn't you consider making the after hand runner align to the end of the top of the two horizontals instead of align to the end of the 1-1/2" ?
It seems the forward end of this tube/pipe aligns with the seat rail and that the after tube would as well to carry that line "through"?
I'm not finding fault or giving a hard time, the design and workmanship are clean. The entire project looks fair (as in lines not 'so-so'), so I was just asking about that design idea since you've gone to the effort to give the ends of the two upper pieces so much 'look' in their forward ends- AND the top rail/smaller tube (or pipe) aligns with the forward seat side hand grip?
Just curious if there were a reason I don't see?
Again, very clean, well done work, thanks for sharing the concept and your work.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
the tube work looks flawless. My only remark is a design question.
If the you spent the time and effort to make sweet harmonious bends to the two different sized horizontals just above the console, why didn't you consider making the after hand runner align to the end of the top of the two horizontals instead of align to the end of the 1-1/2" ?
It seems the forward end of this tube/pipe aligns with the seat rail and that the after tube would as well to carry that line "through"?
I'm not finding fault or giving a hard time, the design and workmanship are clean. The entire project looks fair (as in lines not 'so-so'), so I was just asking about that design idea since you've gone to the effort to give the ends of the two upper pieces so much 'look' in their forward ends- AND the top rail/smaller tube (or pipe) aligns with the forward seat side hand grip?
Just curious if there were a reason I don't see?
Again, very clean, well done work, thanks for sharing the concept and your work.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
kmorin
Re: stringers
Kevin... A sharp one you are... The continuity of the rear handrail on the rear leg.. i don't want a handrail more than 2 fingers
hold on the inside of the handhold and parallel. if i went to the upper 1inch pipe it would look awkward the handrail having more than 2 or 3 inches away from the leg itself..nonparallel. That bothers you don't it.. You can't see the most interesting part of the T-Top of all... The rod holders are all mounted on one retractable bar which is assisted by air shocks and has
a locking device. I'll post some more pictures soon.
Black beard... If glass boat builders decided to throw away their useless center consoles utilizing the T-Top model with a control box. The combo T-Top control box is way more versatile for all their various sized boats. Consoles end up being a catchall for any and all junk storage... Let the Top control combo become what it was made for and that's rigging..with access...plenty of access.. Most consoles you need your kid to crawl into it to do anything.
Design the boat itself with more below deck storage making the Top combo w/seating the main control vehicle.
Bare in mind the T-Top combo can be removed and installed on any and all boats. This concept alone would bring the boating
industry to a new level.. Oh... and yes it can fit just right on the top of a wheel house too..
Just think.. A manufacture with a line of boats ranging from 19ft. up to any size boat would utilize the same t-Top combo no matter the size... sort of a one size fits all... reducing the cost of all the different console molds...
hold on the inside of the handhold and parallel. if i went to the upper 1inch pipe it would look awkward the handrail having more than 2 or 3 inches away from the leg itself..nonparallel. That bothers you don't it.. You can't see the most interesting part of the T-Top of all... The rod holders are all mounted on one retractable bar which is assisted by air shocks and has
a locking device. I'll post some more pictures soon.
Black beard... If glass boat builders decided to throw away their useless center consoles utilizing the T-Top model with a control box. The combo T-Top control box is way more versatile for all their various sized boats. Consoles end up being a catchall for any and all junk storage... Let the Top control combo become what it was made for and that's rigging..with access...plenty of access.. Most consoles you need your kid to crawl into it to do anything.
Design the boat itself with more below deck storage making the Top combo w/seating the main control vehicle.
Bare in mind the T-Top combo can be removed and installed on any and all boats. This concept alone would bring the boating
industry to a new level.. Oh... and yes it can fit just right on the top of a wheel house too..
Just think.. A manufacture with a line of boats ranging from 19ft. up to any size boat would utilize the same t-Top combo no matter the size... sort of a one size fits all... reducing the cost of all the different console molds...
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Pelagic Boats
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:57 pm
- 13
Re: stringers
This is how we do our stringers & frames. Our boats up to 21' have 65x6mm flat bar stringers @ 250mm centers and 4mm frames @ 600mm Centers. Stringers are welded in at 90deg to the plate and run from the transom to the bow in 1 length.
Boats over 21' have 5083 plate stringers and the thickness is the same as the keel sheets, meaning if the keel sheets are 6mm then the stringers will be 6mm as they are nested and cut for the same sheets.
Boats over 21' have 5083 plate stringers and the thickness is the same as the keel sheets, meaning if the keel sheets are 6mm then the stringers will be 6mm as they are nested and cut for the same sheets.
Re: stringers
Pelagic... thank you for the pictures... i'm almost done fitting stringers as i went to box tube..
2 10 X 2" off the CL... and 4 2" X 3" evenly spaced on either side.. Oh and i installed them 90 degrees to the bottom plate... Haven't figured out the frame situation yet but it's going to be difficult anyway... Got to say it's pretty hefty
so far..!! Who's got ideas on frames... many heads are better than one.. thick azz Italian ...!!
2 10 X 2" off the CL... and 4 2" X 3" evenly spaced on either side.. Oh and i installed them 90 degrees to the bottom plate... Haven't figured out the frame situation yet but it's going to be difficult anyway... Got to say it's pretty hefty
so far..!! Who's got ideas on frames... many heads are better than one.. thick azz Italian ...!!
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kmorin
- Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
- 15
- Location: Kenai, Alaska
Re: stringers
AcctTwrs
a caution about using a full rectangular section extrusion as hull members. First I don't know the alloy but often these rectangles are 6061 T6 so there is a very small galvanic differential between the hull 50_ _ series and the extrusion 6061. I know we weld them to each other regularly but I'd like to mention the potential for a poultice cell corrosion with a hull long that is a box against the hull.
Because of the very narrow lapped space between the hull plate and the box where any side of the box is against the hull, capillary action will govern the movement of any liquids, like condensate from the atmosphere in your bilge. Regardless if your deck is welded or not, venting is normal and as the heat of the day expands and contracts the vessels bilge temp so will the air come in and out of the vents. ( If you don't put vents then you're going to add and subtract about 144 lb of pressure per foot of hull and deck how many times per day??)
So because the normal condensate will be on the hull (inside) it may run in droplets along the hull until it hits these rectangular boxes and then it will 'wick' under the box. Under a regular 1/4" wide stringer there is not adequate surface area to create a deareated cell which slows the water and allow the droplet to become acidic. But with a pair of unsealed aluminum surfaces together the water can 'thin' to become so shallow the adjacent surface oxides will strip the oxygen and then the water turns acidic. The rest is boat building/restoration/repair history.
I have repaired several boats where the builder made a Z strip of bend sheet and that was welded, into the hull as longs, at the tip of the Z and the first knuckle and they were very strong with the exception of the holes in the hull under the lower flat of the Z.
I urge caution in the use of wide flat areas of two aluminum pieces that are not seal welded (and pressured tested) where any moisture can get between the two pieces. My experience has shown this can be a corrosion site.
Further 6061 as a bar/box/extrusion or any shape edge to edge on 50series is one event, but to add the galvanic difference (which is very small) to the poultice cell site potential???
I've built a few hundred welded aluminum boats and would not use rectangular section extrusion for hull longs in any case at any time, for any reason. If I needed the hollow section for keel coolers, which I have done plenty of times, I'd just put a U or V on the hull and seal weld the legs. But I can't recommend using box extrusion on the hull for longs.
I'm not sure if you're able to #1 understand the impact; or #2 rethink this idea, or #3 make changes? But I will remark virtually none -that his NOT ONE- of the major name builders use and full box sections on the hull surfaces as longs [unless for dedicated flow of some fluid and seal welded.] An open channel- http://www.alascop.com/pdf/al/marine.pdf
or here http://www.thunderjet.com/thunderjet_us_our_edge.html where a very tall bent section is used to create the longs, and some of the major long term builders like Bill Munson Boats won't use any alloys but 50_ _ below deck so they bend and form all their hull longs of sheet.
just my 2cents,
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
a caution about using a full rectangular section extrusion as hull members. First I don't know the alloy but often these rectangles are 6061 T6 so there is a very small galvanic differential between the hull 50_ _ series and the extrusion 6061. I know we weld them to each other regularly but I'd like to mention the potential for a poultice cell corrosion with a hull long that is a box against the hull.
Because of the very narrow lapped space between the hull plate and the box where any side of the box is against the hull, capillary action will govern the movement of any liquids, like condensate from the atmosphere in your bilge. Regardless if your deck is welded or not, venting is normal and as the heat of the day expands and contracts the vessels bilge temp so will the air come in and out of the vents. ( If you don't put vents then you're going to add and subtract about 144 lb of pressure per foot of hull and deck how many times per day??)
So because the normal condensate will be on the hull (inside) it may run in droplets along the hull until it hits these rectangular boxes and then it will 'wick' under the box. Under a regular 1/4" wide stringer there is not adequate surface area to create a deareated cell which slows the water and allow the droplet to become acidic. But with a pair of unsealed aluminum surfaces together the water can 'thin' to become so shallow the adjacent surface oxides will strip the oxygen and then the water turns acidic. The rest is boat building/restoration/repair history.
I have repaired several boats where the builder made a Z strip of bend sheet and that was welded, into the hull as longs, at the tip of the Z and the first knuckle and they were very strong with the exception of the holes in the hull under the lower flat of the Z.
I urge caution in the use of wide flat areas of two aluminum pieces that are not seal welded (and pressured tested) where any moisture can get between the two pieces. My experience has shown this can be a corrosion site.
Further 6061 as a bar/box/extrusion or any shape edge to edge on 50series is one event, but to add the galvanic difference (which is very small) to the poultice cell site potential???
I've built a few hundred welded aluminum boats and would not use rectangular section extrusion for hull longs in any case at any time, for any reason. If I needed the hollow section for keel coolers, which I have done plenty of times, I'd just put a U or V on the hull and seal weld the legs. But I can't recommend using box extrusion on the hull for longs.
I'm not sure if you're able to #1 understand the impact; or #2 rethink this idea, or #3 make changes? But I will remark virtually none -that his NOT ONE- of the major name builders use and full box sections on the hull surfaces as longs [unless for dedicated flow of some fluid and seal welded.] An open channel- http://www.alascop.com/pdf/al/marine.pdf
or here http://www.thunderjet.com/thunderjet_us_our_edge.html where a very tall bent section is used to create the longs, and some of the major long term builders like Bill Munson Boats won't use any alloys but 50_ _ below deck so they bend and form all their hull longs of sheet.
just my 2cents,
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
kmorin
Re: stringers
Kmorin... Thank you for the explanation of the box tube... I thoroughly understand what your talking about..
Does OH CRAP... mean anything ... Well this is an oh crap moment as I'm almost finished welding the box
tubing stringers in place... looking to install frames.. which will not be easy due to the configuration of the stringer set up.. I'm stuck with what I've got.. My decision would have been totally different had i known this before,..
Lesson learned... I'll just explain to whoever buys it it must be stored in their living room. With the A/C on high..
Sorry had to throw that in there.. there are many examples of box tubing used as stringers all over the net..
Looks like many vents needed... as for temperature change...!!! This is South Florida... the interior temp in this boat is going to be way up there. I'd estimate as much as 120 to 140 degrees in summer.. like you would find in an attic of a typical home.. I'm gonna axe a question here.. an estimate of how long this corrosion might take place..??
Thanks.. more advise is always best...!!
Does OH CRAP... mean anything ... Well this is an oh crap moment as I'm almost finished welding the box
tubing stringers in place... looking to install frames.. which will not be easy due to the configuration of the stringer set up.. I'm stuck with what I've got.. My decision would have been totally different had i known this before,..
Lesson learned... I'll just explain to whoever buys it it must be stored in their living room. With the A/C on high..
Sorry had to throw that in there.. there are many examples of box tubing used as stringers all over the net..
Looks like many vents needed... as for temperature change...!!! This is South Florida... the interior temp in this boat is going to be way up there. I'd estimate as much as 120 to 140 degrees in summer.. like you would find in an attic of a typical home.. I'm gonna axe a question here.. an estimate of how long this corrosion might take place..??
Thanks.. more advise is always best...!!
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kmorin
- Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
- 15
- Location: Kenai, Alaska
Re: stringers
AcctTwrs the amount of water/condensate/dew/moisture is what makes the poultice cell active so if the hull gets as hot as you say then it will dry out, if vented. But if the evening air that gets sucked in, and can condensate, then a day would likely equal a cycle of wetting and drying. So the cells may work pretty rapidly? I can't guess as to rate of corrosion into the hull or stringer face because I'm not experienced there.
Here, under the face of a Z of pressed 5086, it took nearly a decade to go through 3/16" 5086 H-116 sheet that was not fully stripped of mill scale when built. I have also seen/worked on production boats with fuel tanks laid directly onto hull stringer top flanges where they corroded through the tank bottom of 1/8" in six years. I have seen/repaired a 'pump plate' where an electric bilge pump was mounted to a 6" square aluminum plate that was left laying with only a tack in the boat's bilge under a sealed deck, that corroded a 6" square in the hull under a hatch in about three years. (I don't believe the pump's wiring was involved with any stray current) The corrosion patch was only about 0.080"- 0.100" deep, fairly uniform and exactly at the outline of the pump plate, and the hull around that was fine as was the top surface of that plate and the surrounding framing inside the 'well' below that deck/sump hatch.
Structurally, the as-welded joint at the hull, a double face provides no more than the C or U or even L's with a tall leg; and there is a wide spread practice of simply putting bars as longs. As regards adding to the overall hull strength, any form of metal 'normal' to the hull that provides a 'honeycomb'/thickening by grid/overall more rigid hull panel can be used to achieve the internal framing. It may "stronger" (by being thicker) in one place, using a box- but I'm not sure that's really an issue?
Why not take two pieces of offcuts (same alloys) and simply put them together face to face and tape two edges? Leave the other two open and see what happens, make two or three sets, open them at different times, if there's no white chalky dust or damp paste, then the poultice is not forming. It may help measure how these would progress in your area? I'd make the test coupons at least as wide as the boxes in your hull and at least 6" long so they represent a decent approximation of the joint you're testing.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Here, under the face of a Z of pressed 5086, it took nearly a decade to go through 3/16" 5086 H-116 sheet that was not fully stripped of mill scale when built. I have also seen/worked on production boats with fuel tanks laid directly onto hull stringer top flanges where they corroded through the tank bottom of 1/8" in six years. I have seen/repaired a 'pump plate' where an electric bilge pump was mounted to a 6" square aluminum plate that was left laying with only a tack in the boat's bilge under a sealed deck, that corroded a 6" square in the hull under a hatch in about three years. (I don't believe the pump's wiring was involved with any stray current) The corrosion patch was only about 0.080"- 0.100" deep, fairly uniform and exactly at the outline of the pump plate, and the hull around that was fine as was the top surface of that plate and the surrounding framing inside the 'well' below that deck/sump hatch.
Structurally, the as-welded joint at the hull, a double face provides no more than the C or U or even L's with a tall leg; and there is a wide spread practice of simply putting bars as longs. As regards adding to the overall hull strength, any form of metal 'normal' to the hull that provides a 'honeycomb'/thickening by grid/overall more rigid hull panel can be used to achieve the internal framing. It may "stronger" (by being thicker) in one place, using a box- but I'm not sure that's really an issue?
Why not take two pieces of offcuts (same alloys) and simply put them together face to face and tape two edges? Leave the other two open and see what happens, make two or three sets, open them at different times, if there's no white chalky dust or damp paste, then the poultice is not forming. It may help measure how these would progress in your area? I'd make the test coupons at least as wide as the boxes in your hull and at least 6" long so they represent a decent approximation of the joint you're testing.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
kmorin
Re: stringers
Kmorin... the analogy of the 1/8" tank against the larger stringer is all you had to say.. I've built a lot of tanks off the measurements of old corroded tanks.. So it's not going to be an immediate concern.. again lesson learned..
I've kept the transom off for now for ease of movement on and off the boat... As I fitted a bulkhead and the transom earlier. I honestly don't want to weld anything in under pressure, that's a disaster in the making.
Seems the V shape of the hull has changed a little.. nothing I can't deal with but I'm going to put a short bulkhead in
to help hold it's shape... and an spreaders to help maintain shape..
Thanks again...
I've kept the transom off for now for ease of movement on and off the boat... As I fitted a bulkhead and the transom earlier. I honestly don't want to weld anything in under pressure, that's a disaster in the making.
Seems the V shape of the hull has changed a little.. nothing I can't deal with but I'm going to put a short bulkhead in
to help hold it's shape... and an spreaders to help maintain shape..
Thanks again...