New aluminum self bailing deck

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goatram
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New aluminum self bailing deck

#1

Post by goatram »

John Let the goat out of the pen and I have no pictures to show; but the work will begin in the morning.

When I did my Pilothouse on my Northriver I wanted to include the Aluminum Floor for the whole boat. I boat the metal and even cut it to size but the "engineers on BD got me scared about being top heavy. The Aluminum is less weight than the 1" marine plywood that would have been removed. I have since replaced both of the mariner suspension seats with 4 air ride seats. (currently three on the boat. Fourth needs new foam and bottom cover) That has added a few pounds for the cabin area.

To make my aft deck a self baler like Dale's boat. I ordered up 2 sheets of .125" plate 5052, 50' of 1"X3" U channel and 60 foot of 1.5" angle both in 6061 alloy along with a length of 1.25" 6063 pipe. My lid for my 60"X30"X13" fish box will be in side opening. The height of the box will be increased by 6" still sealed from the bilge but will have a 1.25" tube to the the outside of the hull to flood and drain the box for cleaning . Once I get the floor boards up and out of the boat I can start the lay out and fabrication.I have a paper copy of my plan drawn out to assist me.

So In the morning I get to remove both Motors, electronics, seats, batteries and foorboards. So sit down and hold on. The project will be completed by the end of January. My Deadline. I have a few ideas that I am thinking about including in the build. Those will come out as I get to them.
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#2

Post by JETTYWOLF »

WOW.....I don't know if I would have ever bought my boat (had built) if the deck was anything B-U-T aluminum.

Top heavy?
Really, BD engineers?

It sounds like alot of work, but wood can't be lighter, stronger or easier to clean, paint, and maintain.

Good fer U :thumbsup:
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#3

Post by goatram »

Things do not always go as planned.

Today I cleaned the Aluminum up and ground down the welds and structure that was cut away. I also went and got a new bottle of Argon. I also need a new Sawzall cause I destroyed the Makita Saturday night cutting unneeded supports out

Here is three shots of beginning Floor structure Nothing is welded in yet.
The fish box lid well still needs to be opened up to allow it to drain to the side as well as add supports and structure to suspend it.
The fish box lid well still needs to be opened up to allow it to drain to the side as well as add supports and structure to suspend it.
Fishintinlizzy 062.jpg (111.49 KiB) Viewed 12562 times
The wood in the picture is to support the structure while I make the parts. The little box in the corner is the catch basin
The wood in the picture is to support the structure while I make the parts. The little box in the corner is the catch basin
Fishintinlizzy 063.jpg (132.29 KiB) Viewed 12562 times
Fishintinlizzy 064.jpg
Fishintinlizzy 064.jpg (136.72 KiB) Viewed 12562 times
I need to remove the Bilge Pump still. I will have a insulated new kill back made to fit the hold. I also will have a 1.25" tube welded in to fill and drain the Box in place of the pump. When on Step it will drain out like the Northriver Offshore boats do.
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#4

Post by Sabs28 »

COOL, :thumbsup: Keep the progress & pics coming.....
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#5

Post by goatram »

I did some fishing on Saturday and on Sunday for Blackmouth which are Juvenile King Salmon in the Bayside Marine's BM Derby. Caught multiple fish on Sunday kept the biggest one that was 24" weighed in at 5.8lbs tossed a slightly smaller one back that was real close to or over the min. size of 22" so as we can catch him when he gets bigger.

Besides the fishing I did work on the boat a little each day still cutting and mocking parts up prior to welding them up.
I have big open areas on either side of my hull support box that is 67" long by 13" wide and 14" to 9" deep. I have bought two Tempress hatch covers. They are the 13"X30"With a rubber seal to keep the water out still do not know if I will use them or not. I also am having second thoughts of my stringer lay out as I am typing this. I could just run the stringers length wise on the boat stitch weld them to the vertical frames and call it good; what say you?
Here is some pictures of what I am making. first the fish caught
the 24" BM that my friend Ted is straight arming to make it bigger
the 24" BM that my friend Ted is straight arming to make it bigger
Fishintinlizzy 089.jpg (14.66 KiB) Viewed 12529 times
Port side structure framed for a hatch
Port side structure framed for a hatch
SELFBAILING DECK 004.jpg (147.05 KiB) Viewed 12529 times
starboard side with the hatch located
starboard side with the hatch located
SELFBAILING DECK 005.jpg (139.13 KiB) Viewed 12529 times
My Idea for the collection boxes with the drain tubes cut but not welded yet. they will go in the corners with Ball scuppers.
My Idea for the collection boxes with the drain tubes cut but not welded yet. they will go in the corners with Ball scuppers.
SELFBAILING DECK 006.jpg (132.7 KiB) Viewed 12529 times
My Idea for the collection boxes with the drain tubes cut but not welded yet. they will go in the corners with Ball scuppers.
My Idea for the collection boxes with the drain tubes cut but not welded yet. they will go in the corners with Ball scuppers.
SELFBAILING DECK 008.jpg (101.21 KiB) Viewed 12529 times
Forward  fish box enclosure. The Fish box goes into the cabin. This seals it. Once in the cabin you would step down into the cabin proper to the original Deck height.
Forward fish box enclosure. The Fish box goes into the cabin. This seals it. Once in the cabin you would step down into the cabin proper to the original Deck height.
SELFBAILING DECK 010.jpg (159.38 KiB) Viewed 12529 times
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#6

Post by goatram »

I forgot a picture of the topside of the water trap
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SELFBAILING DECK 009.jpg
SELFBAILING DECK 009.jpg (92.29 KiB) Viewed 12529 times
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#7

Post by JETTYWOLF »

It could be "jus me" but if you're thinking of using them Tempress hatches in your deck. That's a bit sketchy. Usually they don't hold much water OUT. They get brittle ovcer time, crack, and can't stand a whole lot of traffic. Catch debris, and then the seal is a maintenance issue.

Couldn't you make hatches out of heavy aluminum? Or even go "additional" hatchless?

Jus' thinkin'. That they work better mounted in up right over a storage space.
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#8

Post by goatram »

Good Feedback Dave! I am hesitant/having second thoughts on using them for the reasons you said.

My thoughts about loosing the storage space that the raised deck gives me as a bone us got me thinking about the hatch covers. Buoys and lines as well as tackle bags would fit in there.

More design and Fab work will overcome this issue. :banghead:
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#9

Post by Sabs28 »

The design & fab work is half the fun ain't it?? I am sure it will look SWEET when it is done :thumbsup: . Keep up the good work.
Last edited by Sabs28 on Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#10

Post by JETTYWOLF »

goatram wrote:Good Feedback Dave! I am hesitant/having second thoughts on using them for the reasons you said.

My thoughts about loosing the storage space that the raised deck gives me as a bone us got me thinking about the hatch covers. Buoys and lines as well as tackle bags would fit in there.

More design and Fab work will overcome this issue. :banghead:

Goatram,
I just know that those hatches I've seen in plastic boats after awhile don't keep alot dry and clean.
I have not a hatch in my deck, and that's reason 258 I bought my boat, but what I do have is open gunnel boxes and a shelf below them to stick "stuff". Believe it or not, I've never had the wanting for a hatch either. It maybe because I went 10+ years in my old 23 MayCraft glass boat with a all one piece deck, with no step-ups or anything of the like. Some times "less is more", is how I look at it.

I'll be watching the progress. :thumbsup:
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#11

Post by goatram »

Dave I am going to make the hatches and structure for them out of Alloy. I was not aware of the Tempress hatch covers getting brittle or the leakage issues. Thanks again for the heads up. :thumbsup:
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#12

Post by Chaps »

John, you got to get down to Seattle Marine at Fisherman's Terminal. They have a great selection of industrial duty alloy hatches with weld-in rings. True, you'll have to get a third trust deed on your house in order to buy them but they are the real deal - Freeman, Bauer, etc.
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#13

Post by Sculpin »

Chaps wrote:John, you got to get down to Seattle Marine at Fisherman's Terminal. They have a great selection of industrial duty alloy hatches with weld-in rings. True, you'll have to get a third trust deed on your house in order to buy them but they are the real deal - Freeman, Bauer, etc.
X2. Worth looking into.

I resealed my freeman this year and it is totally leak free now. I think one has to be careful welding in the frame as not to distort it. Mine is a little twisted just like Ed.

Image

http://www.freemanmarine.com/ProductsHatches.htm

Good luck with the project John.

Cheers,
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#14

Post by goatram »

I understand But that John would be over kill on my little boat. I have since redesigned the support structure I will use the L Angles welded to the frames and then make three hatches to go over the U channel. Pictures of my work tomorrow night.
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#15

Post by goatram »

I have made some progress on my floor final design is completed and now the structure is cut and the welding has begun. I will take some more pictures. Today I turned off the fan when I was done welding and went into the house to get ready to head to work the 2nd shift at Unkle Bill's. I grabbed my DW's camera took some pictures and the smoke from welding was still evident as seen by the haze.

Last set of pictures I posted I was thinking about using the Tempress Hatches. Dave called out some draw backs as did someone on BD so I went a different direction. I made two more channels enclosures on each side of the boat to store buoys, ropes, and other non essential but needed things. I am contemplating storing my batteries in the fwd part of the areas as well. Any reason not to? I would need to build a shelf and install the battery trays and straps. The Batteries are optima yellow tops. Would need to install 4 ground studs and longer cables to connect the batteries to my switches. picture provided of a stud. This is to transfer some weight forward from the transom area to off set the additional weight of 100lbs that the Yamaha F250 motor over the F150 i had on there previously.

My Kicker bracket needed to be set back as well due to the main engine being on a jack plate; set back 5.5". My Idea is this Jack plate that is is till in work. I need to weld on a plate to cover up the channels making it smooth. Once I locate my kicker on it and drill the mount holes I will drill them oversize and install tubes where the bolts will go to keep the back plate from deforming. Clamp up pressure will be on the tubes/pipes more pictures of this will clarify my ideas.

Still need to finish the welding of the structure and all of the pieces are still going in so it is a work in progress. I will use the original pieces of floor board as templates to cut the aluminum floor panels these will be welded in as well.
to connect the batteries to the switches
to connect the batteries to the switches
stud.jpg (22.52 KiB) Viewed 12422 times
Tack welded still need to finish it up and make the Slots in the channel to move it up or down like the main Jack Plate
Tack welded still need to finish it up and make the Slots in the channel to move it up or down like the main Jack Plate
Self Baily Deck 003.jpg (130.02 KiB) Viewed 12422 times
Both Jack plates in view. I have broken two of the Quick Disconnects on my Tie Bar because of the old set back issue
Both Jack plates in view. I have broken two of the Quick Disconnects on my Tie Bar because of the old set back issue
Self Baily Deck 005.jpg (150.48 KiB) Viewed 12422 times
Port side storage area. House battery would go in here on a shelf strapped down in a tray forward of the opening against the Bulkhead
Port side storage area. House battery would go in here on a shelf strapped down in a tray forward of the opening against the Bulkhead
Self Baily Deck 006.jpg (147.46 KiB) Viewed 12422 times
Starboard side Main engine Battery would go in here forward of the opening against the Bulkhead
Starboard side Main engine Battery would go in here forward of the opening against the Bulkhead
Self Baily Deck 008.jpg (95.73 KiB) Viewed 12422 times
My fish box 60" X 32" X 20" deep will have a drain pipe to drain out the blood and crap. Size either 1.25" or 1.5" what do you think about the Drain tube?
My fish box 60" X 32" X 20" deep will have a drain pipe to drain out the blood and crap. Size either 1.25" or 1.5" what do you think about the Drain tube?
Self Baily Deck 007.jpg (142.86 KiB) Viewed 12422 times
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#16

Post by JETTYWOLF »

Sculpin wrote:
Chaps wrote:John, you got to get down to Seattle Marine at Fisherman's Terminal. They have a great selection of industrial duty alloy hatches with weld-in rings. True, you'll have to get a third trust deed on your house in order to buy them but they are the real deal - Freeman, Bauer, etc.
X2. Worth looking into.

I resealed my freeman this year and it is totally leak free now. I think one has to be careful welding in the frame as not to distort it. Mine is a little twisted just like Ed.

Image

http://www.freemanmarine.com/ProductsHatches.htm

Good luck with the project John.


Cheers,
Sculpin

SCULPIN,
That boat sure goods great. Your hard work really made that deck and stern a clean and practical fishing area.
Love that hatch....of course. :thumbsup:
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#17

Post by goatram »

I have installed the Small Size of the Ball Scuppers. I made a 3/8 round plate. Drilled and tapped it for the Scupper base. I used #10-24 SS screws. Upon installing the screws I found that the Top piece was not fitting properly; I had to message the screw heads to make it fit.

The Port Side is shown with out the scupper installed. First the inner tube was TIGed in then the the Plate was welded in by MIG.

Starboard Side has the scupper installed

Still Fitting and welding in the Structure for the Floor
Attachments
Port side
Port side
Self Baily Deck 003.jpg (56.61 KiB) Viewed 12369 times
Self Baily Deck 004.jpg
Self Baily Deck 004.jpg (90.9 KiB) Viewed 12369 times
Starboard side is installed
Starboard side is installed
Self Baily Deck 006.jpg (154.16 KiB) Viewed 12369 times
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#18

Post by goatram »

his weekend I got a little done on the Saga of my floor. The Floor Structure is welded in. I still need to cut and install a plug in the fish box forward wall. The hole is through the bulkhead Starboard side. Originally the vent line for the fuel tank I moved the line to the fill port two hears ago.

The first picture is the cardboard templates for the new floor. I need to twik the cabin templates a bit more. Plus order two more sheets of plate for the hatches and cabin floor/

Today I got 2 red and 2 black battery 8' leads to relocate my batteries to the floor from the back shelf on the transom. I still have to install the Battery trays. They do fit into the new compartment and they will be strapped down as well.
Self Baily Deck 101.jpg
Self Baily Deck 101.jpg (126.45 KiB) Viewed 12343 times
Self Baily Deck 106.jpg
Self Baily Deck 106.jpg (121.52 KiB) Viewed 12343 times
Self Baily Deck 111.jpg
Self Baily Deck 111.jpg (125.25 KiB) Viewed 12343 times
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#19

Post by JETTYWOLF »

I tried them "ping-ponger" scuppers many moons ago on my ole 23' MayCraft with the cut transom. Originally a Dusky Boat designed scupper system. And since my boat was very familar to a Dusky I gave them a try.

Only down side is:
Fouling: Small leaves and debris (IE: mono fishing line, twigs and such) can cause them no to work that great.
Slow draining: I found that I needed a real un obstructed flow with a "cut transom" boat as I had gallons coming over the stern at time, or with the 1200 Lb. Fishing crew standing 4 abreast across the stern, making the boat slowly sink!

I know it maybe too late now John, but did ya ever think about making a "box" below deck level, with a short pipe for an outlet and using something like what Pacific has. (a big time flappers) Unless just below deck level would have them under water already?

I even thought at one time about doing what the SAFEBOATS- (http://www.safeboats.com/default/media_videos.php)
have, which is those "sock" scuppers.....wacky idea as it looks funny, but they work, since they're the trusted Mandatory boat used by our trusty Coasties.

http://www.safeboats.com/default/boats/SS/5.JPG
See The sock scupper????
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#20

Post by goatram »

I contacted the Top Shop the Glen Wooldridge uses to get a set of Small sewn scuppers. I need to weld them up and mounted on the boat. I have pictures now but want them completed to show off to you all. So yes I am removing the installed Ball Scuppers.
As I said before a work in progress. So Speak Now or when its Done; Pipe Down and hold on :rotfl: :gunner2: :gunner2:
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#21

Post by goatram »

I changed my scuppers to the type that Wooldridge Boats uses. Dale aka Ratherbefishin passed on the name of the shop. I got the small version for $35 shipped to my house. They shipped them to my house with a bill enclosed. I was expecting a call prior to shipment but they sent them trusting me. Cool! I took off the ball scuppers, Fabricated new mount Rings out of 5052 AL 3/8" thick plate 4" piece of 1.25" 6063 AL pipe. The Scupper will be held on by a SS hose clamp

Aft deck is welded down as of last night. I am fitting the cabin floors now. They will be screwed down to continue to have access to the fuel tank.

Pictures of the floor will have to wait till I find the SWMBOed's Camera. She hid it and can not find it. I might have to take pictures with the cell phone
the pieces for the Port side
the pieces for the Port side
Self Baily Deck 002.jpg (17.9 KiB) Viewed 12267 times
set in place not welded
set in place not welded
Self Baily Deck 005.jpg (12.44 KiB) Viewed 12267 times
scupper set on the pipe needs the SS clamp
scupper set on the pipe needs the SS clamp
Self Baily Deck 004.jpg (13.91 KiB) Viewed 12267 times
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#22

Post by JETTYWOLF »

There is many reason why I had my boat built, anchor storage is one. And since I always had wet feet, the 1200 pound fishing team on the boat, and a cut transom in my ole boat.

SCUPPERS were really important to me :!:

The way Pacific did thiers was in my book TOP NOTCH.

With that said, I'm really looking forward to seeing how the ole sock scupper idea works for ya. Like I said they have to work great if they're on those at "tax payer's expense", $300,000.00 Safeboats! RIGHT :?:

BTW, I have no idea what that code lingo you used for not finding the camera...I'll guess it was the wifey or the goats that took yer camera......
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#23

Post by goatram »

She
Who
Must
Be
Obeyed
's + Wife
I explained that once before Dave. I let her think that and still do what I want. It has worked for 31 years so far. She has not threatened to cut me off or divorce me in the last 29 years :mrgreen:
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Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#24

Post by goatram »

I got nothing done today except take some pictures and clean the two aft cabin windows of all of the Smoke fog dirt dust so you all can see them. I had a appointment in town so spent the morning goofing off Shopping at Lowes and Running over to Ken's aka Flasher's House to talk to him about what he wants to do to his boat (self bailing deck and railings).

I have the cabin floors out for cleaning and getting ready to install the Rubber tape to ensure the floors do not rattle. I got Canopy installation tape to lay down prior to the Aluminum floors being installed at Lowes. Tomorrow I will get the 3/4" #12 SS sheetmetal screws at Fastenal. I need a bunch do not want to use the 2" long ones.

I did finish the kicker bracket extension and it is welded on. This was done to make the kicker line up with the main engine I installed a CMC Jackplate. It moved the engine back and up cause I used a 30" XL Shaft F250 Yamaha. I got the engine at a good deal this last April.

I still need to bend up the Fish Box Lids this Friday Night. Any Hints or suggested best practices. Work has a Box Brake but only have sharp 1/16" radius dies. I bent two pieces yesterday the second one was bent under the first piece and it has a 3/8ths" radius. I will use a scrap piece to assist in bending the box lids. I will cut the scrap piece to the length of each bend for the 3 lids.
Attachments
Top piece will be the Bend radius for the Box lids.
Top piece will be the Bend radius for the Box lids.
Self Baily Deck2 002.jpg (95.35 KiB) Viewed 12220 times
Cabin Floor Structure. Left is the part of the Fish box that extends into the Cabin. The right side of the picture is the Fuel tank and Simrad Flux Gate Compass
Cabin Floor Structure. Left is the part of the Fish box that extends into the Cabin. The right side of the picture is the Fuel tank and Simrad Flux Gate Compass
Self Baily Deck 002.jpg (119.67 KiB) Viewed 12220 times
I moved my Minn Kota Battery charger to the transom out of the Center Equipment Compartment
I moved my Minn Kota Battery charger to the transom out of the Center Equipment Compartment
Self Baily Deck 005.jpg (124.36 KiB) Viewed 12220 times
Center Equipment Compartment. Reconfigured. Moved the Trim Tab Pump to the shelf from down below. Added the Battery Studs to connect the Battery Sws to the Batteries
Center Equipment Compartment. Reconfigured. Moved the Trim Tab Pump to the shelf from down below. Added the Battery Studs to connect the Battery Sws to the Batteries
Self Baily Deck 006.jpg (96.99 KiB) Viewed 12220 times
Starboard Battery Compartment lid
Starboard Battery Compartment lid
Self Baily Deck 009.jpg (127.79 KiB) Viewed 12220 times
Finished Aft Deck awaiting lids and Paint
Finished Aft Deck awaiting lids and Paint
Self Baily Deck 013.jpg (128.54 KiB) Viewed 12220 times
Port side view of Kicker Bracket Extension
Port side view of Kicker Bracket Extension
Self Baily Deck 014.jpg (137 KiB) Viewed 12220 times
Starboard side view of Kicker Bracket Extension
Starboard side view of Kicker Bracket Extension
Self Baily Deck 015.jpg (144.49 KiB) Viewed 12220 times
John Risser aka goatram
33' RBW with twin 250 Hondas (Aliens)
2015 Ford F350 Dually
Master of R&D aka Ripoff and Duplicate
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JETTYWOLF
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Location: Tree-hugger, USA...they call it FLA.

Re: New aluminum self bailing deck

#25

Post by JETTYWOLF »

goatram wrote:She
Who
Must
Be
Obeyed
's + Wife
I explained that once before Dave. I let her think that and still do what I want. It has worked for 31 years so far. She has not threatened to cut me off or divorce me in the last 29 years :mrgreen:

OH, us swingin' dicks don't think in those "terms", so excuse my ignornance and short memory.

So, how did she benefit by the new Ford house puller?? :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Get them scuppers done and get 'er wet and letus know. You will "wet her" before spring time I hope :?:
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