Contaminated Welds

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NTGeorge
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Contaminated Welds

#1

Post by NTGeorge »

Here are some pic's of a transom tig weld. The inside was welded with a pulse mig, welded fine. Once turned over the outside was backchipped with a 4" grinder with metal blade. A bees wax was used as lube, the back chipped area was thourghly washed with acetone and then wire brushed. This contamination can be seen whilst welding and results in what you can see in the picture. We have tried various methods and combinations but cannot get rid of it. The same contaminate affects the mig when welding the seams on the outside. And if it's thick enough it really screws up the mig weld, it's like the weld has combustable gas going off within the weld.
I have tried preheating the area just before welding to try an eliminate moisture, but dosn't help.

We are out of ideas, and seeing as it only happens on the outside welds that have been back chipped I'm thinking that the bees wax has something to do with it, but I need to use something as a lube as if nothing is used it gets pretty useless pretty quickley.

Any one that has delt with this and has an idea or better a solution I'd LOVE to hear, as I'm starting to pull my hair out.
Otherwise pretty tig welds are looking pretty ordinary at the moment, and anyone that tigs will testify as to how frustrating it is to have a good tig weld look crap.

:beer:
Attachments
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tazmann
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Re: Contaminated Welds

#2

Post by tazmann »

Hello NTGeorge
New poster here. I am no expert at aluminum but when I back chip I run dry for fear of contamination, when I was working with thin gage I was using aluminum grinding wheels and wire brushing after with no issues. Now I am building frames form 1/4" material and using an arbor-tech with carbide cutter dry and have done quite a bit with same blade. I would say try it without the bees wax or any lube and see if that works. Another thing to check is the argon flow meter, I have one that started going high and low while I was welding, every low pressure area on the weld had holes in the surface
Tom
kmorin
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Re: Contaminated Welds

#3

Post by kmorin »

NTGeorge,
It does looks like there may be multiple potential causes for the welds' appearance. First as you note the wax lube is not necessarily removed fully by acetone unless the area is wiped half dozen times even then a film may remain, I use a cooking product to lube blades.

The frying pan anti stick spray (Pam brand in the US ) or vegetable oil mix in a spray can is used to lube the blades but not on the work. I hold the running tool away from the work and spray the blade while turning and then use the tool. I use the spray to lube long 'stock cuts' where I may be ripping hull panels from original stock but I don't spray directly onto the tool's edge while back chipping to avoid adding any more lube to the future weld zone.

This stuff wipes off, vaporizes at low temperatures and seems to be a reliable way to keep tools free of melted metal while avoiding weld contamination.

Next, since these may be outside corners I'd look at the gas flow? I use much more argon on an outside corner because there is no natural "huddling of gas" as would the case on inside or flat joints, so I move from 5-7cubic ft per hour up to 20 maybe 25 cu. ft hr. if the weld is done with larger (5/32" -2mm) tungsten?

Also, I'm not aware of the TIG power supply (you're using) but the cleaning action of the weld AC wave form may not be balanced as well as it could be to attain the best cleaning action? DCEN versus DCEP Some times when I see the 'pepper flakes' floating in the puddle I'll change the balance to increase the cleaning action. On the welder I use the 'balance' setting, the amount or percentage of the AC wave that is positive or negative is adjustable and that affects the 'cleaning action' of the puddle's surface and surrounding parent metal.

I turn UP the DCEN (negative component of the AC wave form) to increase penetration and DOWN to increase cleaning; on my power supply I'd turn down the Balance Setting if I got results as you show.

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/TI ... _Chpt2.pdf

In this case I notice the flecks or pepper flakes are constant at a background level and that would cause me to work to lower the balance in the terms of my welding power supply (lots of different terms and dial settings in various welding equipment) to increase the cleaning and reduce the penetration. Further, there appear to be some areas along the welds where the contamination is not cleaned at all, these are areas where I'd be concerned the cover gas is being thinned or blow off?

IF the gas flow is too high, especially without a gas lens, and the torch is inclined too much to the weld surface; then atmosphere can be 'pulled' over the weld from the lead edge (under the gas cup) by gusting conditions in the shop and when this happens the lack of cover gas allows all sorts of soot as we see in the photos.

Last but not least, if there are pockets of oil/wax/grease/contaminates in the back up welds (?) or from the back chipping operations (?) then I find they tend to be very short localized bubbling instead of longer soot tracks near the edge, so that implies to me the contamination in the two photos may be from different causes? The surfaces next to the longer soot trail would be where I assumed the problem was in that photo and the intersection of three welds with even, but heavy, surface black flecks would make me think there were contamination in the underlying weld or in the bottom of the weld shown.

Gas coverage, AC wave form balance and lower vapor temp. lube along with a review of the gas cup handling angles would be the areas I'd investigate.

Cheers,
kmorin
NTGeorge
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Re: Contaminated Welds

#4

Post by NTGeorge »

Thanks for your input Kevin, your right about the ac/dc balance. I have more neg as I am trying to achieve more penetration rather than a picture perfect weld. But I would like it a bit better than I am currently achieving. I will try your spray can cooking oil as the lower temp burn off sounds like a better idea than the bees wax, it can be very difficult to remove sometimes.
Gas coverage should not be a problem, I am running a 3.2 electrode with a #8 gas lens flowing 15 ltr per hour. Not sure what that is in cube feet sorry. I have been struggling with gas coverage problems in the past to find that the line going into the torch had perished from heat and was allowing gas to escape (This has happened three times now so a water cooler and WP-20 torch is currently on order and should be here next week). This showed slightly different symptoms giving me a mustard type fleck on the weld surface.

My machine is a MigoMag AC/DC 220 can be found at- http://www.migomag.com.au/ under products/tig/220AC/AD sorry they do not do a direct link. It's an ok machine, about the best that my small business can afford.
One day I'll be able to afford a Fronius..........

I'm kinda leaning towards the bees wax as being the culprit, as this problem only rears it head with the outside seam welds that are backchipped, and I just don't feel that the backchipped area is cleaning up 100%. All other welding dosn't have any signs of this contamination. It's just one of those things I think I know the answer but I'd like another second or third opinion first.
Thanks for your input Taz and Kevin

George
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kmorin
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Re: Contaminated Welds

#5

Post by kmorin »

George, what about using mixed gas? Helium & Argon mixtures give more 'heat'; that is more heat of fusion for a given amperage and if the power supply is limited to 220 amps then I'd suggest you consider using that gas to increase the effectiveness (penetration and fusion) of the welds?

the wax does look like the culprit in the one photo.

Hose leaks are somewhat odd, the law of gases predicts that atmospheric contaminates will be 'sucked into' the leaky hose even if its more intuitive that the gas will simply leak outward. Leaks in hose, or fittings can introduce oxygen directly onto the weld puddle with oxides reforming and the puddle being completely colored or worse.

cheers,
Kevin Morin
kmorin
NTGeorge
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Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:23 pm
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Your location: Darwin

Re: Contaminated Welds

#6

Post by NTGeorge »

Kevin

I've had my gas supplier quote me on the heliarc gas, it's about four times the price of normal argon so I havn't ordered any yet. I figured when I start consistently welding 1/4" plate I'll get some in. The perished torch line was a doosy, as at first it only leaked when the torch was manipulated in certain directions. When I get the water cooler set-up I'll be stripping the machine down to service and double checking all internal lines, as it's been a little unreliable for a while when it comes to gas coverage.

I'm keen to get some free time to do a little trials with different lubes for the cutter to see if I can 100% pin down what is causing my problems. It may be a little contribution from several levels like you suggested.

Cheers
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