meat eater

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welderbob
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meat eater

#1

Post by welderbob » Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:55 pm

We have been doing this a long time, but were always looking for a new or better tool. At a recent training seminar we were asked where is our "meat eater" .I looked at the guy a little strange as he described it. I said we use a circular saw. He couldn't understand how we had never heard of a "meat eater". He called his office and had a couple of 4" blades next day aired. We were cautioned never to use this blade on an electric grinder. There is to much torque and speed in an electric grinder. Of course one of my guy had to try it that way. He jammed it in a corner and it jumped out at him at 10,000rpm. He was lucky only the grinder hit him in the head. ( no blood or stitches )

We now have a few of these 4" air grinder set up in the shop. There great for opening up a seam to re-weld or to scarf down and area. . The air grinder has a lot of control and it stops turning when you let your hand off the trigger.
I don't know how we ever lived without one of these tools. Grinding wheels leave a residue that just doesn't weld as nice

Google "Skarpaz" for the blades. There 4" TCG saw blades.We had to add an adapter to the air grinder to fit the 5/8 hole. There not cheap ,but they do last a long time. We have used them on several boats and still work well. They also can be re-sharpen more than once. Its great to scarf of your tacks before running your bead. Makes for a more uniform looking weld ans is much faster than a hard wheel.

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Re: meat eater

#2

Post by CTMD » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:19 am

In Aus we call them a lethal. I wouldn't try and build an Ali boat without one.
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Re: meat eater

#3

Post by StabicraftMarine » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:55 pm

Meat axes. Name says it all.

We avoid them like the plague. Our guys nest everything for the router. The guys only use them when nicking hull markers or when doing a floor custom (rare).

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Re: meat eater

#4

Post by CTMD » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:24 pm

Tim,
what do you use to cut back a weld? That's where we use them.
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Re: meat eater

#5

Post by Gundog » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:02 am

Have you tried the ones that have 2 blades spinning in opposite directions? I have one and it works great on AL plate.

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Re: meat eater

#6

Post by StabicraftMarine » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:33 pm

CTMD wrote:Tim,
what do you use to cut back a weld? That's where we use them.
Typically we dont grind our welds back, we leave them as pretty as the day they were laid.

If the guys need to, there is the meat axe and also regular ol' 5 inch grinders.


Cheers,

Tim.
http://www.stabicraft.com

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Re: meat eater

#7

Post by CTMD » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:22 am

Tim I'm confused, when you're seam welding do you not weld one side then cut in from the other side? Or are you using extrusions on all edges.
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Re: meat eater

#8

Post by StabicraftMarine » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:12 pm

CTMD wrote:Tim I'm confused, when you're seam welding do you not weld one side then cut in from the other side? Or are you using extrusions on all edges.

I was too. Late days, early mornings.

We buy in sheets as big as we can to suit hulls and what not. We swage and fold as much as possible. We rarely have to join plate but when we do a big boat and have to, the guys will bevel, root run, turn, dig some out, weld from there. No rocket science.

We try not for safety and production speed.

We have a 2880 Pilot House in build for the Seattle Boat Show. I think if there was any being done on the floor, it will be in that boat. i'll see if I can get some shots.


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For your nearest dealer...
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Re: meat eater

#9

Post by goatram » Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:36 pm

StabicraftMarine wrote:
CTMD wrote:
We have a 2880 Pilot House in build for the Seattle Boat Show. I think if there was any being done on the floor, it will be in that boat. i'll see if I can get some shots.


Cheers,
Tim.
Concept pictures? This is the First one for the Market here? Price range? Interesting. The one that is painted Red that Tom Nelson runs from Everett is a pretty Boat and Quite Distinctive.
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Re: meat eater

#10

Post by rastus » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:22 am

interesting that they have the same nickname in different places. the proper name i am led to believe is a miller.. They are used at my work all the time mostly 5" blades. but in Queensland under WHS you need 2 handed operation and a retractable guard. I Have had a close calls using them and seen a couple incidents with them worst was a boilermaker cutting off a ladder and it bouncing back and cutting down his face.... cut the eye lid but not the eye, he was very lucky. also there are 2 kinds of blades we use a thin one for cutting and a think one for grinding.

I will get some photos of the guard we use. we get it router cut and fit it ourselves, about $30 in parts but a couple hours to put it all together.

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Re: meat eater

#11

Post by StabicraftMarine » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:22 pm

goatram wrote: Concept pictures? This is the First one for the Market here? Price range? Interesting. The one that is painted Red that Tom Nelson runs from Everett is a pretty Boat and Quite Distinctive.
This will be the first Pilot House on this hull in the US. We have a few Supercabs on the water.

Its not the same as TJ's. His was an 859 (34 foot).

Here is a link to a google doc of the general assembly.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... 4&hl=en_US

Tim.
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For your nearest dealer...
888 GO STABI (USA)
1800 178 224 (AUS)
0800 478 224 (NZ)

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Re: meat eater

#12

Post by welderbob » Wed Aug 31, 2011 5:20 pm

rastus wrote:interesting that they have the same nickname in different places. the proper name i am led to believe is a miller.. They are used at my work all the time mostly 5" blades. but in Queensland under WHS you need 2 handed operation and a retractable guard. I Have had a close calls using them and seen a couple incidents with them worst was a boilermaker cutting off a ladder and it bouncing back and cutting down his face.... cut the eye lid but not the eye, he was very lucky. also there are 2 kinds of blades we use a thin one for cutting and a think one for grinding.

I will get some photos of the guard we use. we get it router cut and fit it ourselves, about $30 in parts but a couple hours to put it all together.
I'd like to see a picture of the guard. I'm sure my guys would take it off. I'm always telling them to put a handle on a grinder or sander. Is there a cutting file you could share to make the parts?
welderbob

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Re: meat eater

#13

Post by rastus » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:11 pm

Here it is, wont let me post images they are to large.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/rastus/mg5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/rastus/mg4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/rastus/mg3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/rastus/mg2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/rastus/mg1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/rastus/mg6.jpg

Not the easiest thing to take off, it does not restrict much in the way of getting into tight places and it is spring loaded. i will have a talk to the guy that drew it up see if he minds releasing it.

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Re: meat eater

#14

Post by NTGeorge » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:40 pm

We call them a meat axe as well, I know what your trying to say Chris, it's what I use mine for. I think maybe he uses extrusion for his seam joins.
I too have had some very close calls with this deadly weapon, usually I find it's the new blades that are the worst for jumping, after they wear in they are fine. They cut like a knife through hot butter if you use a little lube, Kevin got me onto the 'spray on' cooking oil, if you don't 100% get it fully cleaned off it will not cause your weld to self destruct like the old bees wax dose.

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Re: meat eater

#15

Post by tazmann » Wed Aug 31, 2011 7:56 pm

I am curious with the air grinder with front discharge, do you have problems with it blowing oil on the work ?
I have a little 4" like that and it is messy .
Tom

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Re: meat eater

#16

Post by NTGeorge » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:38 pm

I think you might be over oiling it. 4 Drops of light machine oil every 2hrs worth of usage, this is pretty mush the same for any air tool.
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Re: meat eater

#17

Post by rastus » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:42 am

NTGeorge wrote:I think you might be over oiling it. 4 Drops of light machine oil every 2hrs worth of usage, this is pretty mush the same for any air tool.
:beer:
I think most of our tools would be lucky to be oiled daily :( even when the workers own them.... as for the oil on the job most edges are cleaned with pain thinners or gunwash prior to welding to clean off any water/oil/dirt. We also use the spray can oil for sanding or when cutting long plates with the circular saw. also we don't build boats we build aluminium trailers

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Re: meat eater

#18

Post by tazmann » Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:12 am

Yes I probably do have a tendency to over oil air tools, I also give them a good dose of oil when I am finished with them, I have had them freeze up when not used for a while, mostly that came from moisture from compressor
Kevin recommended using an arbortech for back gouging with the 2 blade cutter
http://www.arbortech.com.au/view/woodwo ... 0202100615
and I can say it works nice, easy to control
Tom

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Re: meat eater

#19

Post by NTGeorge » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:57 pm

Taz
I tried one of the arbotec units but found that it went blunt to quickly for my liking so I went back to the meat axe.

rastus
Yea when I was a mechanic I reckon my 1/2" drive rattle gun only got a squirt of oil once a week and it's still goes to this day, 15 years later. Think I might be lucky, but the better quality air tools you buy the more they will handle this sort of stuff.
Any chance you can post some pic's of your alloy trailers? I think ally trailers are the ducks nuts, I build them occasional up here for customers but am lazy with the camera.
Also be careful with using paint thinners for cleaning before welding, I can't tell you of the top of my head but one of the hydrocarbon based solvents in them will turn into a highly toxic gas when burned (welded over), This is why we fork out the big bucks for the acetone, well it seems to cost me a small fortune anyway.

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Re: meat eater

#20

Post by rastus » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:15 pm

Image

Image

If you wanted you could put a boat inside them but.... they can be put to better use

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Re: meat eater

#21

Post by NTGeorge » Sat Sep 03, 2011 1:48 am

:thumbsup: They are friggin awesome :clap:

I was actually expecting box trailers or motorbike trailers :rotfl:

I don't make alloy trailers that big..........

Good stuff mate
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Re: meat eater

#22

Post by AcctTwrs » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:06 pm

Forgive me for being so late on the upswing... Air grinder or electric... OMG,.. this thing is a suicide machine.
Never tried anything like that. I can imagine using this little monster... I'm guessing there's a very short learning curve to this one.. Damn... !! this makes me want to try one of these... I don't know....??

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Re: meat eater

#23

Post by welderbob » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:54 pm

DO NOT USE WITH AN ELECTRIC GRINDER!!!!!!!!!!. An electric grinder has to much torque and spins to fast . You have much more control with an air grinder. If you jam that blade with an electric grinder it will jump out it you and eat you alive. An air grinder will just leave you with a few stitches.
I happy to have a phone conversation if you really have a need to use one of these . Send me a PM

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Meat Axe: UPDATE

#24

Post by kmorin » Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:22 pm

BUMPING up an older thread about a gouging tool for aluminum.

I've posted this before on other threads but wanted to update this older thread I found reading the AAB.com archives. The first tool(s) shown are single bladed and so the single set of teeth could potentially dig into the metal and either pull the tool from your hands or jamb or otherwise deform the metal part. The idea of a free handed 'milling' tool is really useful, however, caution is important with the tools shown, mainly due to the teeth arrangement potentially hanging up in the metal and causing a lurch or grab.

Lots of older builders will have used skill saws to mill welds, and back chip inner chine welds or other double sided welds in their boats. But the tool is pretty large, again single bladed and visibility and agility are sort of compromised using a sheet cutting tool to mill free hand.

One of the posters talked about the counter rotation tool, where two blades are running in opposite directions and that does indeed work well for these types of trimming or milling actions. I purchased one to try it out for just that purpose and found it to be very useful but I was limited to some access areas by the case size and blade size so I tried order the 2" blade model but couldn't find it in stock anywhere.

Here is a re-post of some pictures of an electric driven meat axe/widow maker/aluminum weld prep tool that I've been using for a while.

Image
There are three 4" Freud/Diablo metal cutting blades stacked on the standard (US) 5/8" threaded arbor. The factory provided steel safety shroud has been added too on both ends or edges. The lower edge (shown up) has a curved piece of steel welded to the cover/shroud and a piece of UHMW tape is applied so the 'foot' will drag smoothly along any area being cut/dressed/cleaned/shaped/gouged. The other has an small steel angle that was welded on the case/shroud and bent to close with the blade edge.

Image

At this angle the blade's stack of teeth arrangement shows why the tool is safe to use one handed and will not grab or lurch. It is totally smooth pull along while cutting as the teeth are all so close together then cannot take a deep cut at one pass. The tool ends up cutting like a smooth plane over the material since the teeth ride on the metal when cutting.

Image

A flat-to-the-blade look at this version of the meat axe shows the two safety shroud extensions so you can see that if the bottom of the photo were the metal to be cut that by raising the motor case upward the blade could be eased into the work area with good control. Further the UHMW tape is show in its slide position where the steel will not catch and drag on the aluminum chips trapped between the 'shoe guide' and the work being cut or trimmed.

This view also shows how the bottom guide/slide works as pivot or cutting limit for the blade's engagement in the aluminum.

Just a bump post to make sure that others considering their own metal work are able to devise tools that help in cleaning weld penetration on the BACK side of their welds when that is accessible.

A NOTE of caution; this information is provided for educational purposes, not a recommendation that you use tools arranged as shown here. If you're not experienced with high speed cutting tools used on aluminum, for example if you're just beginning to work in metal, then there are other tools that will be more useful for your projects. AAB.com Forum does not suggest that non-professional tool users consider use of tools that are discussed and posted by full time builders and shop fabrication people, the information is here to further the discussion of work methods by those who have adequate experience and judgement to wisely judge their use.

I was in the Train Station Box Store a week past looking for some polishing compound (they had it!) and noticed a new flap sanding disk. This item may not be new to others here but... I suggest this tool would work well for many back chipping jobs instead of the Meat Axe.

http://www.amazon.com/Polifan-Abrasive- ... +flap+disk

I'm providing an Amazon link because I didn't find the Boxstore's product link very easily- I'll assume, but don't, know that other vendors will have this type of flap sander?

The edge of this flap sander is rounded to result in a coved or inside curved shape when using it in a T or chine type joint. So this sander would work to help remove weld penetration where it needed to be removed but at a slower rate and with less problematic results if the tool were in the hands of a less experienced user.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
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Re: meat eater

#25

Post by goatram » Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:29 am

Kevin here is another Grinder that has a brake so that once the paddle is released the blade stops in under 2 Seconds. it has autobalance as well. From Metabo; A safer option if one wanted to use a Meat Eater/Axe

http://www.metabo.us/WEPBA-Instant-Brak ... 995.0.html

When I cut my Left Index Finger in January of this year. I was using a Air Grinder. I will be purchasing this grinder when I return to playing. Your 3 Saw Blades Stacked up does look better than the single blade PN# MS41230AP I use from Matushita http://matsushitaamerica.com.p10.hostin ... uminum.htm
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