Need Advice

[buck3]

Alright so I am still trying to decide if I should upgrade. The wife said do it, she wants a larger pilothouse. But I am really trying to justify it. Chaps' Edwing is the perfect boat for what I was looking for.

BUT

If I were in the next year there are two aluminum boat builders in Port Angeles that would be on the short list. But they both frame inside, under the deck different. Is there any benefit to either way, or is it just two different ways to skin the proverbial cat?

This guy uses upside down channel with angle welded to the floor support.



Then these guys use a frame cut from plate and a skin welded to it. Its a little smaller pic, but hopefully you can see it.




Which would you prefer? and Why?

[kmorin]

buck3, the question is will the hull panels flex and therefore be able to eventually flex-to-failure?

Either system breaks the hull 'panel' (meaning unsupported area) into smaller areas so they become stiff enough to withstand the loads of running.

any given panel of any given thickness can be stiff enough to hold the same load if the panel is reduced enough. So if you had framing in a honeycomb that was 1/2" squares, the hull sheeting could probably be 0.006" thick! and work fine. (I'm not saying it would be a welded hull).

Then if you had a 3/8" thick hull panel, I doubt the framing would have to be more than a keel bar and the chines to work well.

What each designer and builder has to do is decide thickness and size then to put in adequate framing to reduce all the areas of that thickness to sizes and shapes that will withstand the load.

There is not better, best, only countless choices. If one company has an CNC cutting service in house or close at low cost, then they may choose the full hull to deck curved cuts of longitudinals along the buttock lines. Another company without those resources may choose to press brake some channels or even order an extrusion of channel made to work as longitudinal stiffeners on the hull.

Both approaches may reduce the panel flex or add 'hull stiffness' adequate to the job. Both methods could be argued pro and con to that design. Neither one can be considered 'better' unless you set your own criteria. You may choose weight as the main design criteria therefore; if one is heavier its not as good as the lighter version. You may choose hull panel thickness as the criteria, one of these may use thicker panels than the other and that would be your choice. You may argue that weld area or weld total length is your decision criteria? and on and on...

Their is no best if we're discussing the framing of a boat, UNLESS you are willing to define BEST by some criteria. This is like asking what is the 'best' of anything- like beauty- it is in the 'eye of the beholder'.

yes, there are many more than two ways to skin the 'framing' cat. I you want to find out the 'real deal' then find owners of each series of hulls and ask how they're holding up? If one group has repairs and one doesn't then you can draw conclusions, but if there is no obvious trend - these two builders just frame differently.

For the same thickness hull plate, the only rule of thumb you can use is the smaller the open panels' dimensions (remember; for the same thickness) the stiffer and stronger that hull is compared to one with large open panel areas.

I'm not in favor of "skill saw tank maintenance" as the first firms seems to require but the framing in both seems like its going to do the job.

cheers,
Kevin Morin

[buck3]

Thanks. That is why I ask questions here. I am only at the drooling point right now. But the top picture is 33,500 for a 26x9.5' ready for power and the bottom is 40k for pretty much the same. Both with a 6'x7' pilothouse.

[dave]

Who are the builders?

[buck3]

Top is crozier craft and the other is lee shore boats

[JETTYWOLF]

Have ya looked at Pacific's short cabin open back style walk-arounds....they don't have any of that going on under the deck.
Just big box stringers.


But as Kevin said, They do have "skill-saw tank maintenance" going on. If in fact there's a problem. Don't know that any of us have had any problems and there's many owners here.

[buck3]

I have looked at the Pacific's and that is pretty much what I wanted. Just couldn't afford the name so I would save allot of money by having someone else built the same thing.

[ruggit]

Have you checked with Armstrong in Port Angeles? I think they still build some mono hulls.

[buck3]

Yeah. But they were priced very high compared to the smaller outfits.

[pjay9]

Have you got any contact info for Cosier craft...you shuold give them a call and let them know that the web search is not working..in fact it took me to a phoney scam virus site...i am going to log off now and do a full scan of my CPU. BYE! Capt PJ

[buck3]

Crozier craft is with a z not a s. I'm not sure of their web think it's just croziercraft.com

[dave]

Have you checked with Armstrong in Port Angeles? I think they still build some mono hulls.

I talked to Armstrong about a small mono hull boat. They referred me to Croizer. He used to work for Armstrong.

[welder]

I have looked at the Pacific's and that is pretty much what I wanted. Just couldn't afford the name so I would save allot of money by having someone else built the same thing.

I doubt very seriously if you can find someone that can build the same boat that Pacific builds. You do realize that to get the quality of boat that they build you would just have to buy one of theirs . Pacific boats are built to meet ALL standards of building , Hull, Wiring , Rigging and finish. Their finish is the raw ALLOY itself with a clear coat , there is no spatter, chicken crap or poor welds . Show me someone else that can build a boat with NO scratches on the boat .
The cost you are paying for is the Material 5086 Marine grade Alloy, Excellent fit of materials, A time proven design built by Master craftsmen, a solid one piece .250 hull.
There are many more things that go into a Pacific boat but in a nut shell, you get what you pay for. If you want to talk Strength and durability ....These hull have been dropped on the HWY, dropped at the ramp , Hit a oil rig [ME] , parked on a concrete dock [Jetty Wolf ], driven over a NON ALLOY boat, blown out of dry storage during KATRINA [ repaired CC and t-top], one hull has had the motor RIPPED OFF TWICE [ them crazy Indians ] and get this ...ALL the boats are fine with NO repairs to the hulls and are on the water today.
Of course, these boats as with every manufacture are not for everyone, there is something about every boat that is not for everyone but to say you are paying for the NAME , I think you are mistaken. I believe you would be paying for the QUALITY behind the name.

I'm not bashing you , just defending my choice of a quality water craft .

Your mileage may vary.

[welder]

Buck3, were cool , I made the ^^^above^^^ post for others , NOT to bash you.



Oh, Jetty didn't park his 26 on the dock for fun , a 6' swell from a barge shoved him up there.

Think I'm going to stop posting and get some sleep , it looks like I'm picking on everyone.

[pjay9]

Crozier craft is with a z not a s. I'm not sure of their web think it's just croziercraft.com

I know...I mispelled it when I wrote it... the point is the website may be hacked/coruppted (sp again)...so don't go there...I found 3 viruses on my machine with today's date...so give them a call...it might do everyone some good! If you get my drift!!!! THX Capt PJ

[buck3]

Ok chads crozier's cell number is (360)461-4825

As far as pacific vs others. Yes I can agree that pacific has allot better fit and finish as well as superior designed houses. But I simply cannot afford one and I refuse to take a loan out on a toy again. Did that before and it has never worked out. From now on i am trying to live by the "if I cannot pay cash I cannot afford it."

So no offense taken, one of these days I hope I can upgrade to either one of those cold water boats in the classifieds or have a nice trawler built.

[welder]

Don't forget about Wooldridge boats.

[buck3]

I would love one of those wooldridge boats. He looks to be a top notch guy. Of course if I did order one of his Alaska xl sport jets looks awful tempting.

[Sabs28]

[welder]

I have spent some time with Glen Wooldridge on the phone and I'm here to tell ya, he is a stand up guy that knows his businessand its all about the customer.

[StabicraftMarine]

I believe you would be paying for the QUALITY behind the name.

Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten. Get the one that makes you most proud and you will love it forever no matter what compromise you made.

Tim.

[JETTYWOLF]

I have looked at the Pacific's and that is pretty much what I wanted. Just couldn't afford the name so I would save allot of money by having someone else built the same thing.

Hmmmmm, yer telling me I own some kind of "high dollar" boat? COOL, an always "economically challenged" fishing guide in a Florida town no one has ever heard of has a High Class boat...."sounds good to me!!!"

I bought mine because I thought it was a middle of the road and was quite affordable. I'm surrounded by Contenders, Pathfinders, and High dollar 18' flats boats, that aren't nearly ""THE BOAT"" mine is, and cost the same or more, usually more, for a smaller boat with alot of useless crap on them and are plastic. So, that's unusual for me to hear.

You're doing W-A-Y better than I, if you can do cash for a boat. Yer not one of them "rich Alaskans" are ya

[jrbaldwin]

I have a 22ft LeeShore Swiftsure boat with a custom cabin. It is a not a pretty boat but it is a heavy duty boat with more of a commercial design, very seaworthy and handles well is a seaway. Leeshore boats are used by the local sheriffs dept & commercial fishermen. It has a lot of free board and a nice side door for bringing large fish aboard. I fish out of Port Townsend the roughest section of the Puget Sound and go fishing & crabbing in almost any weather. They are under new owners and have moved from Port Townsend to Port Angeles.

Jim

[dawgaholic]

Whattaya mean it's not a pretty boat? As compared to what? Looks like a large cockpit and that side door is cool, nice 22 footer!

[welder]

JR, NICE RIDE dude.