24' DYI alloy remodel

Mods and custom builds
kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#451

Post by kmorin » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:30 pm

Tfitz, wow! nice arch. I thought the pipe was the end of the design and work? Nice job with the sleek plating and smooth lines. I like the fold down and top of cabin penetration coverage, will the slack lead coil up inside the leg of the mast/arch or will the stow in the cabin ceiling area? Looks like about 2' to30" of slack?

I'd imagine it was strong, sure looks solid.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin

Tfitz
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#452

Post by Tfitz » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:08 pm

Thanks. Now I get to tell my neighbor you like the space craft look too. I was going to leave the slack loop in the arch leg. Plenty of room right where I need it. I might run a power point jack wiring up for a hand held spot light and wiring for and anchor light receptacle. I was planning to mount my VHF antenna on it but Garmin says not within 40":(
Hope the raft fits under the arch. If it works it will be like a glove. Regardless it will be a nice place to go up top when anchored up in some beautiful little cove on a sunny warm early morning and sit on my arch and finish my coffee. Slerp!! Ahhhh ooh that taste good. I can almost smell it now....life is goooood!

kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#453

Post by kmorin » Tue Mar 22, 2016 3:39 pm

Tfitz! Wait a minute.
I like the mast itself, you've put it too far forward and not made it into the lift assembly on the stern of the main cabin-extended. That is how is should be done.... I've drawn that last year some time? I think the look is too far forward for the overall lines, so you can tell him that.
just keeping things straight on the record.

I've put antennas really close before and had to ignore Mfg's recommendations to get them all to fit! They worked, radar and radio nearly on top of each other but if you've got a good place in the correctly designed distance- why not use it?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
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Tfitz
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#454

Post by Tfitz » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:25 pm

Oh I'm suppose to wait a minuet now!!!!! I sent you photos of the pipe rack location weeks ago!!!!!! You SAID you were going to draw or look up some arch design but....never saw it? I need the rack that far forward so I can fit the raft under it. That was my logic. Whats your logic for a different location?

kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#455

Post by kmorin » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:31 pm

Tfitz, I've been "teched out" for a while, I'd written some smartaleck answer but it was just as I'd gotten shut out again!

Anyway, the jist is to review the thread. I'm not remarking about the one single bench fab of a radar arch, I'm discussing the installation and I've doggone sure drawn this entire show before!

Review the thread could have been a year past? I showed the reasoning, and location and the images; still recall my ideas. So take a look, you'll see my ideas and I'm stickin' to 'em.

Cheers, Back on line at AAB.com

Kevin Morin
Kenai
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#456

Post by kmorin » Sat May 14, 2016 4:37 pm

Tfitz, I think its time for some fish harvesting pics? Some super nice days in the Sound of Prince William in the last few weeks so, we'll be waiting for the pics of the boat in her new 'dress'- slaying fish, hauling pots and generally celebrating the Alaska Gulf Coast?

Looking forward to hearing (better yet 'seeing' pics) when you get some time? My family was out to Culross Passage looking for some shrimps and got a few but mainly monsoons for their weekend trip. First mate on that crew wants to mortgage their house and move up to a 40'er- some women never know a character building exercise when they experience it?? What could be more fun than freezing your keister off in the rain in a 25' day boat? Some women just don't know when they're in the lap of luxury?

Hope you're well, the boat is better and the crew is enjoying some calm seas, sun not rain, and plenty of fish to pull onto your newly installed decks.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#457

Post by Tfitz » Mon May 16, 2016 2:40 am

The only fish picture I have for you is one that my neighbor sent me today of HIS first halibut of the season because my boat isn't done yet! I just don't have enough free time having to work a regular job all day. And I had to work out of town for two weeks so that really set me back. I do plan to get it floating this summer. that's about the best I can do at this point in my life. I am making progress, just not much of it.
Attachments
img_20160515_130618758_hdr-resized-1400.jpg
my neighbors first fish. 93 lber
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starboard cables and hoses
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port cables, hoses and cabin heater fuel tank
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looking aft. the boat still needs to be wired yet
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looking forward
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floor pans on. starboard side. relocated my gas tank selector valve and fuel water separator to this convenient location
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starboard side. floor pan and trim installed
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port side floor pan instslled. notice my wash down spray hose and hose storage spot.
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port side
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sink an

sink fixture welded in
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notice the fold down fauset! i also have my cabin heater mounted inside this cabinet.
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under floor storage access holes, starboard side
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port side floor storage
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dingy storage. fits perfect! Just for the record I wouldn't want my radar arch in any other location!!

kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#458

Post by kmorin » Mon May 16, 2016 9:21 am

Tfitz, glad to hear you're still making progress. I do understand that work's got to come first and projects second, and that makes me glad to hear in this climate of slow down you've got something to do. Congrat.s there are plenty of guys in the Inlet here who are willing but not as able to find something.

Boat's looking good, lots of nice features in the cabin. Raft looks like a good fit under the arch, will the bow be stowed down like that? you're loading it from the decks where you're standing in the pic? So, pull off the kicker (if you use one, stow it at the stern?) then pull if forward along the walk way/side deck; then horse it over the rail and stow stern first as shown? Works in the shop, hope it works on the water? Looks pretty neat and compact in that location. I still like the arch farther aft, and a raft lifting rigging, but hey its blank paper here, and metal work in your shop so "the Skipper is always right".

Speaking of stowage, lots of the nooks and crannies around the entire hull have neat stowage, lots of work too. Galley cabinet turned out nice, neat looking railing with the nested and bends both; hand hold and and fiddle board. The helm&seat look like they combine into a compact area. There are two nice looking recesses in the transom- which I didn't recall being double walled like its shown here? Those recesses look nice- they have a flanged edge - is that so they're removable? so these form a drip pan for the filters? Nice touch on this size boat, keeps drips off the decks, easier to clean up and still change or service a filer bowl. Lots of work even there.

Good luck getting her wet this year, probably have to do as much with outside factors, like work and travel, as it will with time off to run all the electrical and controls?

looking good,

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin

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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#459

Post by jaybro28 » Sat May 21, 2016 10:09 am

Just wanted to thank both Tfitz and Kmorin for this thread. It is so helpful I've created a login just to make this post. I've been preping for an upcoming project, with limited experience, and this is by far the single most helpful thread I've ever read. There is so much knowledge shared here, it's almost intimidating. That being said, it's also inspiring seeing Tfitz's welds come along so nicely from the first post, to the last. And of course, great boat too! Thank you guys.

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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#460

Post by Tfitz » Sat May 21, 2016 12:02 pm

jaybro, lm very glad to hear someone else is out there that is benefitting from this dialog besides me. And when you talked about being inspired it sent a little shiver down my spine! Your Welcome!! don't be intimidated. Take one job at a time and It's all just a bunch of small jobs stacked on top of each other that go on an on. But you do get to the end eventually. I will say this.....it takes allot of time, my kids are in college and gone so I can do what I want with the little bit of free time I have. But if you got little kids....FORGET it. buy a new boat and spend this fabrication time with THEM!
Kmorin is the one who gave me the confidence to move forward with MY skillsaw. At least I had someone to bounce ideas off of and he always has an opinion to get me started in the right direction. so Thank You Kevin for all of that! and it ain't over yet!
Attachments
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Friday night enterainment. sink plumbing and propane tank install.
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kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#461

Post by kmorin » Sat May 21, 2016 12:53 pm

jaybro28, Tfitz, threads like this are one very good reason that welder mounted the site. This is, as far as I'm aware, the only site that is geared to this size and type of boats and their details of care and feeding?

So, for what I've contributed you're surely welcome. Jay, as Tfitz had noted I do have opinions in all these matters; I think it's because I've done them all, from drawing to building and welding, and all the other tasks involved. Not as well as I'd have liked, mind you, and I'm now pretty well off my welding skills due to sitting not working in the shop for so long.

Welding wize, I always try to encourage practice and more practice for the newcomer as that skill can be a weak link if not attended; after all they are welded aluminum boats.

Design wise, I partly agree with Tfitz, the boat is a long list of small jobs, but.... I want to see them drawn out, planned and re-planned more than I want to build spontaneously on the shop floor. (I have built dozens of skiffs by eye, using a technique to account for the evolving shapes.) Not that Tfitz' method of design-as-you-go can't work- his boat shows that it does- my point is there are countless places he could have saved work, conserved material or design or function- all of which might shorten and help the project- that could have benefited from drawings, sketches, plans, even dimensional models. So Tfitz and I come from different schools of boat building where I've learned from building full time for a few years that plans are worth their wt in time saved, errors reduced and re-work conserved.

Jay if your project gets going and you post progress here, hopefully we'll get Tfitz to post replies too? He's getting close to the been there and done that club, and there are others here who have modified, rebuilt and worked on their boats too. I'd hope you'd find more than just my replies from the Forum? (AAB.com Forum members: nudge-nudge; wink-wink- throat clearing..... the Puget Sound members should be posting in this and all other threads about remodel, experienced work reports, design ideas, and solutions they've found doing their own work!)

Tfitz, if you get boarded by the Coasties, don't let them in that cabinet with propane inside the house! I think you'd get some flak there? I usually put the bottle outside and run lines with a dual shut off valves one just below the regulator and one inside the cabin at the gas use point. Almost all tube fittings can develop a leak over time due to harmonics of any engine installation in metal boats. Propane is heavier than air, can pool in the bilge, and can result in an ignition event- so Zone 0 or Class 1, Div 1 treatments for the cabin's gas supply in my view.

Tfitz, I know it's not over yet; it's a boat: It's Never Over and if it is? you sell that one and build another.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin

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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#462

Post by jaybro28 » Sat May 21, 2016 1:25 pm

Thank you for the encouragement, both of you.

When the time comes (probably about 8 weeks from now) I'll start a new thread rather than hijack this great one. My scale will be smaller than most of these. I'm in the SE US and our small rivers have our own unique requirements, jon boats are prevalent. I've had a great number of them myself and scratch built a few, and their utility is very high for our use cases. That being said, I wanted something more... elegant for use both in the river, and inshore. To that end I started designing one. I quickly realized that while I knew what I wanted quite well, and understood some of the design elements, I most certainly didn't know what I was doing. Consequently I've contracted Bruce Cope to design the boat and am currently waiting in his design cue. In the interim, I've invested in tools so I can begin practicing welding (I'm 25 years out of date, and was a novice at best, even back then.) I've located a mentor who will help me spend my practice time wisely while I continue researching and waiting on the design. Ultimately what I hope to end up with is an 19(ish) foot shallow water jet, but laid out as more of a cross between a southeastern inshore skiff and a bass boat, powered by a Merc sport jet, center console. So not as grande a project as what ya'll do, but useful for me (I live on the Ocmulgee River, and am a fishing addict.)

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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#463

Post by wleder » Tue May 24, 2016 11:53 am

I want to echo jaybro28 and thank kmorin and tfitz for this thread. I am amazed at how much information and time that kmorin has passed on to tfitz and all other readers of this site. What a great resource! Thanks! All the drawings and detailed info on welding was great. And tfitz just makes me mad, he gets more done while working a full time job than I do in retirement, its embarrassing... It was inspiring watching your welding skills improve over the course of the project. Give us regular folks hope.
Thanks again to both of you for all the pictures, details and information.
wleder

kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#464

Post by kmorin » Tue May 24, 2016 7:18 pm

wleder, (at first I thought our Host, welder, had a few more beers than his keyboard could handle?) Glad you're enjoying Tfitz' s trial by fire- not everyone has the building spheres to post-as-he-goes; take my withering criticisms, witty repartee [he said humbly :eyepop: ] and overwhelming prejudices; on the chin and "keep-on-postin"!

Tfitz, is the typical Alaskan- "Of course I can do that" boat builder, a man after my own heart. If I could just get him to slow down and draw more...... :deadhorse:

Glad you're enjoying the thread, wleder, this thread is a good example of why welder put up the site. As long as I have artfully segued into a pitch for the site, please allow me to continue?

The AAB.com Forum has a few advertisers but welder has not quit his day job to be an i'net mogul just yet- at least as near as I know? He's the go to bank account if the advertisers' dollars don't cover our band width, storage, and other costs. So, if anyone reads a thread, saves some bucks from mistakes others have already made: YOU MADE MONEY READING it here.

When someone saves you bucks, materials, welding consumables, reworked boat designs.... the money saved can be serious. So... I think it's only good manners to send a little cash to our host. I myself send $50 or so every year, like a good magazine subscription, or less than dinner for you and the First Mate. Or if the guys come over for beers, lots less than if they come over to drink your beers. If everyone would treat the host to a 50 for the year, and did it reliably, not only would the host be able to pay for server space he'd even be able to hold a Texas BBQ every year. (Not that he needs to do that mind you.)

Anyway, I'm always glad when I hear others say they enjoyed a thread, or got 'knowed up' from where they'd been before reading about what we discuss here, and so I make an annual reminder to all those readers who have "ears to hear" that our host has costs to keep this barn above our digital heads and if you've benefited from his efforts (and those who come to his barn to talk welded aluminum boats) then it seems only fittin' that you leave a little "corn in the jar."

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin

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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#465

Post by Tfitz » Tue May 24, 2016 11:41 pm

I just wish I could get back the two hours I wasted drawing up my boat floor plan at your unending insistence that "that's what I NEED to do". Next winter I'll start a fire with it and make it useful. Don't think any of your comments on this forum dig a little too deep. My place of employment keeps my skin Moose Hide Thick. So BRING IT On!. it's all fun n games to me!!

kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#466

Post by kmorin » Wed May 25, 2016 1:17 am

Tfitz, you drew a floor plan? I'm shocked- shocked I tell you. But don't for a second even think of admitting that your final floor plan design was benefited by the full scale drawing time, the visualization of the proportions, the clear spacial relationships that gave.. naw.. let's call that time a waste - I'm good.

It was wasted. (er.. Forum Readers- please don't look at Tfitz' cabin and how he tucked all that stowage, galley, sitting, folding table and all ... NAHHHH don't look at any of that. That happened by uhhhh.... welll.... errr.. Uh... Oh! that happened by 'chance'.! ?RIIIIIGHT that just happened. ) OK back to our regular programming......

Tough as Moose hide, OK a few brewski's and I'll tell the tale that brings up.

My Dad, Gene was in the 5th Marine when they visited a one of the Pacific Islands in the 40's. It was called Iwo Jima. Gene's parenting ideas seemed to have been formed or at least influenced by his time with this group of guys. He thought that having a son meant they needed to experience his time at a California resort name Pendleton- as soon in life as possible. (I'm on record thinking that might not be the only way to parent a son.)

So when we moved to the 'last frontier' in 1959, when I was the ripe old age of 8, and his eldest male offspring he had these sort of 'sempre fi' ideas that I'm describing. At that time, moose or deer (caribou for those who use neo-natal-geo-graphic) were a factor as household staples- beef was a once a month or less event. That meant unless your family had a taste for pure mac-n-cheese diet you hunted moose in the 60's to feed the troops and Gene had 7 mouths to feed with his own in that count.

Moose are not really very sharp so its pretty simple to shoot them but at that point the work begins. Tfitz has shown us a taste of his highly modern equipped way of harvesting moose but that level of was not common in the 60's on the Kenai Peninsula, where Gene was raising his son (your poster). The good thing about moose is they are big and slow and so there is a lot of meat to be had close to home (then) and with only the effort to pick it up in pieces to carry home.

Well not entirely. You see, if your father was on Iwo Jima with that rascally group of guys called the 5th Marines he could find a lesson in life for a 10 or 12 year old Alaskan son.

And he did.

I hauled the hide out.

Only Tfitz and any other Alaskan has any idea what I just said. But I'll try to give a bit of a picture. The moose is designed by the Good Lord himself to run in trees and brush and his hide is 5/8" thick leather along his spine. It gets thinner near the appendages and belly but not by 200% or anything. A moose hide is thick and thick wet leather is heavy.

So, to provide a character building exercise Gene (Kevin's Dad) would carefully skin the hide, intact; meaning all in one piece. The moose hide is about the size of a small Eastern liberal state- say Vermont? And Gene would roll the hide into a longish roll of - well- wet leather with hair on it, and strap it to a 'pack board'. It weighed close to what I did, not sure on the last because I didn't have the capability to weigh a hide at 12.

Then we'd put the pack board on the ground and I'd lay down into the board. With the two straps on, my Dad and sometimes hunting buddies would roll me over to my knees and then help me to stand up. I recall the first few times falling over back ward but then kind of caught on to the idea of leaning forward to get that wt on my legs not behind them.

So it was my job to get the hide out to the road.

A little historic note for anyone still bothering with this Alaskan Tale? The Kenai Peninsula burns regularly and has for as long as anyone knows. The cycle is that spruce trees grow from the burn plus one year up to the next fire. So we have lots of what we call 'pole tree's' or spruce that are about 3-4" in diameter.

When they burn in a forest fire they just fold over so they from a set of hurdles at 24-36" off the ground. The moose we usually shot were in an area called the Kenai Burn- which happened in the 1940's in that forest.

So, here's old Kev with his moose hide pack trying to walk to the road. Even with legs of an adult man walking in 'The Burn' is considered difficult (many tales are told) but to a 12yr old; it was just bit more challenge, I can assure you. Where does that leave our hero? A 100 lb kid is carrying a 120-140lb slimy, jello roll on his back, climbing over a carpet of burned trees layered into a mesh of hurdles that are fully waist high, not knee or mid thigh hid to a man. One hide took me nearly four hours to haul a mile and half. ah... "Iwo Jima" Moose hide memories.

So now the AAB.com Forum knows why I had to smile at Tfitz remarks about his moose hide resistance to my ribbing.

I think we all have to recognize that Tfitz, has done one hell of a job with his project boat. Like some fool kid trying to wrassssle a mooose hide of the Kenai Burn; its really more about a can do attitude than ultimate skills or knowledge- you can learn both of those if you just strap that load on and take the next step.


Tfitz's attitude is what, IMO, the site needs to appreciate, anyone can build the skills if they'd take time.... but the attitude that: I can do this is what makes Tfitz's project possible. Just take it one step at a time and don't quit- that's what we've seen.

Nicely done.

Oh yeah! I almost forgot- Did you want my address to send the halibut fillets? or do I have to drive all the way the Whittier tunnel turn off with a cooler? Can't leave without some flack.

Cheers
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin

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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#467

Post by Tfitz » Wed May 25, 2016 2:02 am

If its Halibut that you want...Then it's Halibut that you'll get. But first i need to find out if this tin boat is going to float! Thanks for all those kind words. It means allot to me coming from an seasoned hide packer like you

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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#468

Post by jaybro28 » Fri May 27, 2016 9:10 am

Thanks for the suggestion kmorin, contribution sent. On a side note, I find the idea of the Alaskan lifestyle so alluring, until I remember I moved south from Minnesota because it was too cold. My viking ancestors would think me a wimp, I have no doubt.

kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#469

Post by kmorin » Fri May 27, 2016 2:33 pm

As long as we're off Tfitz' topic just a bit.... I wouldn't mind the AZ winters and AK summers routine of the people all call 'snow birds' after the much more wisely acting migratory birds who come North in spring and head South int he fall.

It was warm last winter, by comparison, but can get cool for half the year- I'd rather live where it was warmer - but everyone else does too! So those latitudes are a little crowded for my taste. But in time I'd expect the cold will drive me out too?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin

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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#470

Post by Tfitz » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:35 am

Nope not done yet.... But I'm about ready to start wiring. Finally done with bigger fabrication jobs. I hope to do whatever it takes to get it floating by mid July :shocked: cause that's when my 3 week vacation starts.
Attachments
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Engine Box with trays that drain and rod holders.
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It has recessed tie points to lash down shrimp pots on top. User friendly corners and a comfortable height to sit on. Also will have a bait cutting board in the center.
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it opens and stays open when overcenter
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Huge storage area underneath. I will make a hinged door later
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I plan to make a couple of wings for the box top that will plug into the rod holder holes on each side and sit so they're flush with the top of the box and the boards will rest on the rails so it will turn into a 7' wide fish cleaning station. No more fileting the 100 lbers on the floor!!!
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I'm not sure how the storage area will work sitting on top of the engine? I don't really know maybe it will also serve as my on board OVEN!... haha
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I added this 3/16" collar around my hatch opening to give the hatch a flat surface to seal to and it really made the area around the hole firm. I removed a 1/2 plywood spacer from this spot. What were they thinken???
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my new raft arrived in the mail and just fit under the arch with 3/8" of room to spare

kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#471

Post by kmorin » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:51 pm

Tfitz, nice engine cover, yeah the heat in the stowage compartment may get too hot, but not hot enough to melt line, or a couple tool boxes? Whatever goes in there will have to be pretty light wt or the cover will be a lot to lift?

Top looks nice with the chamfered edges and tie-too points. Be kind of a bear to stack a dozen pots and have to lift the whole show to check the oil? No sweat once the pots are set- but just noticing that anything on the cover has to be moved to get below.

Deck looks much better than I recall, not sure I've seen (or remember seeing) it this far along? I thought from some of the pics you'd welded it in? Nice fit and finish, might be a bit slick without some traction tape, or wing walk or some other grit bearing mastic?

I have to say she's coming along nicely. Glad to hear there's a mid summer's break for you and she may get some time afloat then.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin

Tfitz
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#472

Post by Tfitz » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:58 pm

starting to button things up for the big float test. Everything seems to work as expected. can't wait to try it out!
Attachments
20160710_204412-resized-1400.jpg
windows installed
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antenna and new mounting bracket
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port side transom. notice wash down pump water pick up tube between zinc and trim tabs
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starboard side utility room. looking down standing in cabin facing stern. In this limited space I have a bilge pump and fish box pump. 3 batteries. Two bilge blower motors and ducting. battery isolation switch.
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port side utility room looking down and toward the stern
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not my best work but every crimp was done with a professional tool and labled very well. That was my 4th of July weekend your looking at.

kmorin
Donator 08','09,'10,'11,'12,'13,'14,'15,'16,'17,'18'
Posts: 1363
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#473

Post by kmorin » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:46 pm

Tfitz, many hours of work there. Could you go over the zinc mounts? Seems like they're on a pedestal on the transom, can't say I've see it that way before? Not sure of what I'm seeing in photo?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin

Tfitz
Donator '16
Posts: 322
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:08 pm

Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#474

Post by Tfitz » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:06 pm

this boat had a jet pump at some point in its life and those pipe stubs are a remnant of that install. They served no function with this DP inboard setup. Except now I welded my zinc's to the ends of them.

kmorin
Donator 08','09,'10,'11,'12,'13,'14,'15,'16,'17,'18'
Posts: 1363
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#475

Post by kmorin » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:02 pm

Tfitz, cool, I wondered why the pipe stubs and now I know, thanks.

In the duo-prop system is the engine cooled by a heat exchanger (?) cooled by salt water that then exhausts overboard through the prop hub like other I/O brands? Are those trim planes the vertical bar type or is that just a housing to mount the flap type tabs too?

Cheers
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin

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