24' DYI alloy remodel

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kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#351

Post by kmorin »

Tfitz,
the tank's mounts look good and beefy, the fitting being on the centerline seems unneeded to me? I line the outboard sides/tank edges with all fittings; fill, vent; draw, return if diesel, just makes the plumbing simpler and more accessible to me?

StEl in the thread-o-let boss is pretty tight to the deck, I'd get a strip or roofing mastic and line that pipe opening's ridge to keep the foot traffic from leaning down that 1/8" or 1/16" but it sure is close. I despise NPT threads in almost all forms, prefer to use O-ring/SAE threads for anything possible, but then what's available is what's available. Having a fitting that is 1/8 turn too loose or 1 more full turn to get tight, with the correct orientation, is why I prefer the hydraulic standard whenever possible but... locating a set of aluminum alloy straight thread couplers/thread-o-lets in 6061 or 5086 is just not real world in my experience.

As to switch covers, I've used lots of different shapes and the best was a short pipe stub sitting vertical, limbered at the deck where they were welded on, and a plastic (PVC/ABS) cap with a SS lanyard. The cover you show will work find, orientation would be best set by the location from which you're going to reach for that switch and finger or thumb action. I've also done part of a hull stiffener section sort of an inverted L, angle sections, and recessed a few where there were more than a couple switches in a bank. What you show looks like it will work?

If I can avoid it, and you're not going to with the switch there, I try to keep wires from going over a hinge line or be on lift off covers... so you might want to consider the switch located under the trunk, inside the cabin, near the hatch where you could keep the wires inside and the switch near to hand if you're going to service the winch from the hatch? Also, not sure of the switch rating but... a wireless switch to a RF relay that is rated to the power needed for this winch switch may be an easier way to keep the electrics inside? There are more than a few RF relay's around, and they'd be able to take a much greater amp load (winch power) than most SPDT bulkhead mounted switches? This option also allows easier control from the helm so it may be worth a look?

Not harping just speculating about options?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#352

Post by Tfitz »

The second tank went in exactly like the first. Same spaces and gaps. They look good. Solid. Not bolted to the boat but part of the structure of the boat. Thank You for that idea to bolt on the X, Y and Z planes. I like it. I did not just WAG the locations of those tank fittings. The forward inboard street 90 is my vent and the rear inboard 1/2 fitting is my fuel pick up. If you've just added 70 gal of gas to one side of your boat it's pretty safe bet it will be leaning outboard and to the stern(engine weight) so my logic says to get the most gas in the tank you put the vent as far forward as possible and inboard(the high point). More gas = More better! And the gas pick up is a no brainier. It's by far the lowest point in the tank. That gas pick up point will remove any moisture in the tank(your the one that told me that). So if that's what your talking about MY ducks are in a row!!
With my tanks installed I now have a good reference point to begin where the floor height should be. Any pointers for cabin layout design? I think this would be a good time to make a cabin drawing to scale. :thumbsup:
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kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#353

Post by kmorin »

Tfitz,
Tank fills determine how well a vent works, so if you have fill downcomers, to the inside lower line of the tanks near the keel, the tank vent can be anywhere along the outboard side and work fine. Note that the vent is some vertical extension of the tank? Therefore no matter what the pitch or roll of the hull (bow up, or down; and port or starboard chine down or up) the vent's vertical component allows a tank to be topped off is the vents are on the tank's top plane and above.

Incidentally, I regularly include a 'slop bottle'/'froth cup'/overflow and expansion chamber in the vent lines. Just a piece of pipe with fittings to allow hose in the bottom and out the top. This means if the gas dock has fast 2" commercial boat pumps that you can usually let the tank's top fuel froth up the vents, and then drain back into the tank without spilling overboard or on deck.

Also if you tank up at night, top off with cold fuel and the sun's out the next day, this bottle can allow plenty of room for expansion without having a spill. I use 3" or 4" pipe usually.

I think, but am not up to speed there are new CG regs in regard fuel systems that specifically address the vents and expansion chambers? I doubt you'll be boarded in for a routine inspection in the Sound of Prince William but.... just saying there may be more to this remodel than meets the eye?

As the near resident king of WAG-design-as-you-go, I was wondering if you're feeling a little faint this evening? Are you seriously discussing drawing cabin designs before final welding in the part as you go? I'm shocked- shocked I tell you.

My version of design in tiny cabins is subtraction(s). You know some things have to happen, like the helm? So put the wheel up on the work bench and stand behind it, and mark the floor... that's the space for the helm, you may be able to sit there too? but that space is now gone for other purposes- like galley or head or bunks.....

The seating for the helm can be cabinet or pedestal and that is next, if you take that area out, take the 'next' priority- galley? settee? whatever and block it out... subtract that space....

Any of the spaces can be cabinetry/boxed in instead of stand alone furniture and that helps conserve volume in the cabin- the premium space on small boats with living accommodations.

So I'd begin with the overall volume (box of the cabin) and then dedicate the most important spaces and keep on till it was full- that size cabin won't take long.

As to design and build; since its a very light boat, lots of plate is counter productive- I'd frame it in extrusions then use thin ply or marine plastic sheeting to make any surfaces.

If you post some dimensions, I'll give some sketches of ideas that may help 'stimm-uh-late' your thinking?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#354

Post by Tfitz »

Thanks Kevin that method of subtraction is helping me get my arms around this phase of the project. I picked some seats out and I think i will get them ordered today so I have them to help size things up. I was planning to do all aluminum sheeting inside. I like the look, cleanup and low maintenance of AL. What if I used angle extrusions for corners and edges and go with 1/8 or even 1/16 AL side panels. I would like to avoid a plastic look. I'm thinking some kind of felt / carpet liner for the interior ceiling and walls to help with moisture and provide some insulation. I will draw up some cabin dimensions today
kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#355

Post by kmorin »

Tfitz, the thin plate interior is fine but.... it likely as heavy as the plastics in a thicker layer so the plastic panels are less flexible, have colors, don't sweat/condensate and are pernamently finished due to being homogenous castings. But flat plate (regardless of thickness) will need to be buffed/etched/painted to have anywhere near the same finish look. There is a Bayweld build thread recently posted on the Forum where you can see the level of effort the interior was when all metal- then sanded and coated/clear coated then finished that is a big block or hours.

so, if you're going to do all aluminum plate, I'd get the main fits done, take the plate out to the bench and clean it, buff, dip in acid, sander- whatever method is going to be used, and the take in back in to tack and weld in. That way the main surfaces would be cleaned and more or less 'done' when the welding were done. The welding inside the cabin does make things tight, and lots of outside corners that will end up being "finished" edges might be sanded to present a more refined edge- notice in the Bayweld boat they TIG welded almost all outside corners that would be seen and only MIG welded the inner, less visible welds? That is cosmetic consideration, even though they were going to paint their entire interior (Zolatone or something like that). So finish in metal is not eliminated but the degree is up to you of course.

I have done a few interiors and found the cabin companionway/hatch/doorway to be the biggest single hours sink hole in the entire boat! every thing has to go in and out that narrow opening! That is just boats I guess? We did a couple or commercial net fishing boats that had complete interiors and the wood work was a major pain in the calendar- that is for certain. If we'd been allowed to consider a metal interior, I'd have tried. I've done some metal interiors in smaller boats (later in my building career) and we did weld and fit and paint, that did turn out OK, but the paint effort was non-trivial.

Anyway, let me know if there is anything I could offer some (mild) harping on and I'll harp on.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#356

Post by Tfitz »

No paint on this boat! None. I am scared for life when it comes to paint on aluminum. I have 9 gallons of paint stripper memories backing that up. I like the metal look and that's what I will aim for but I guess I will figure that out when I get there. I ordered the 2 suspension seats this morning and I'm getting some measurments on paper right now and should be done soon. I need to get this paper work out of the way so I can get back into the welding fumes again!
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kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#357

Post by kmorin »

Tfitz, another item occurred to me that is worth your consideration in an interior design.

Folding/transitioning/multiple use furniture is a good solution to space limits- BUT ONLY if the design is solid and the fabrication is VERY solid. I'd been involved and I'm sure you have too, with motorhomes/RV's/trailers what had a settee of two benches facing one another with a table on a pedestal or hung from a wall or bulkhead between as the sit down dining area? Then the table can be placed between the bench seats and the cushions rearranged into an extra bunk?

So my remarks are that if you decide that a cabinet or built in furnishing can be designed to do two jobs.... I agree there are possibilities. However, if the design AND the build are not well executed then neither job gets done well and the change over from one 'mode' to the other is where the multipurpose cabin joinery can be tricky. Seating, bunks, stowage, galley surfaces and appliances, are all subject to this idea so if you're thinking of those types of cabin features, once you get your general layout, there is good reason to consider 3D modeling before cutting and welding.

The key to a owner/skipper/builder's design test is to watch yourself for any phrase that begins "Oh,I'll just move this when I want to use the....." that means the project needs more real design time.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#358

Post by kmorin »

Tfitz, if the door can swing out, make it swing out, no sense having to give up some interior space to a door swing footprint.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#359

Post by Tfitz »

Paperwork done! Let me know if you can't see the lines. Drawings are not to scale. I just drew them rough but the measurments are close. Within a fraction of an inch. This is what I had in mind for cabin fixtures / layout. Yes, I am planning as many duel porpose things I can think of. I'm sure you'll let me know if I missed something. Thanks Kevin. I'm going to start building the floor supports they will be the same regardless of how we lay the cabin out
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#360

Post by Tfitz »

Too late on the door it's swinging in. That's the way it came and I'm reusuing the old door. It will work out OK
kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#361

Post by kmorin »

Tfitz, sorry to disagree, but the floor beams/cabin sole supports/deck framing does not have to be just flat with everything else built on top. The best is to frame the furnishings/joinery and the floor as integral so there is stowage all the way to the hull and access too.

The door is a mistake, that entire island and its space given to the door swing is not a good idea, and changing hinges/side out/ and hang of a door is sure a lot less work than allow that tail to wag the entire dog!

Best of Fortune, but you're building in some lessons for the next boat to see corrected. IMO, Still trying to move too fast and not give the work its equally important phases, notice that welding before cutting and fitting is not exactly in sequence? Might spend a little time chalking this out on the shop floor,in real size, or putting some cardboard and tape to use and mockup ? Oh ! I know! to slow, hurry, hurry, hurry, young folks are always in a hurry, so they often do work three times:

Once, too fast to plan, thoroughly;
Then, take it apart,
Finally, do it right the third go around!
(harp off)

Been there, done that and have lots of online posts to share with others about those methods, but then I'm old and know that I have to spend time in each phase of the work, not just WAG-it. Funny that patience and full attention to details comes after I'm mostly past my building years!!!

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#362

Post by Tfitz »

You have to have a landing to step onto when coming in through the door so it's not all waisted space but I agree it's not ideal. Thats the way the boat came and I decided to not change it. An out swinging door has its problems too. This will be fine stop the harp. Believe me I have a plan for access and storage all the way to the hull. Storage is a huge priority with me and I will make the most of every inch available. If I can just stop this typing and paperwork crap then I could get to work and get the floor roughed in and you could then see "The Light" :thumbsup:
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#363

Post by Tfitz »

When I get to a point when you can really see my multilevel cabin plan I will take a video. It's hard to see things like that in a photo. I'm going to spend the next few days getting the floor framing kinda mocked in so I have a platform to temp build off of. Then I will try to mock in the cabinetry trunks and use coolers or cardboard and by then my seats should have arrived.
kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#364

Post by kmorin »

Tfitz, I've twice found that I didn't have enough room from the helm back to the seats OR, when I put the needed room there I had ended up with an awkward standing/sitting arrangement for the helm, not on the off side.... (as much) just a caution about where the helm seat goes in relation to wheel if you're going for the stand OR sit option, if the option is always to sit at the helm this becomes simpler to fix the seat.

I ended up with a fold up bench seat so the skipper could stand or sit at the helm with comfort/ergo-metric space. Not discussing a pure sit down helm.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#365

Post by Tfitz »

I'm going with a sit down for sure. Plus I'm going to gain a little cabin room at knee level because I'm going to cut out the divide between the cabin trunk and the cabin. So during the day when driving my knees can stick into the berth. And at night when sleeping my head can stick into the cabin! Duel purpose space utilization in action!! I don't think I need to worry about the floor warping enough with top weight over this street 90. It looks pretty support secure as is. Reinstalling the floor now. Then I might just hang the door just to make sure the swing clearance is ok. Kinda WAGed that during back wall fit up I know it's going to be close. Then I will get a few floor supports temped in so I can give you a feel for the complex multilevel floor and storage system I have painstakingly designed down to the minute detail!!!!
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#366

Post by Tfitz »

I tried to make a video but it would abort during upload. It Maybe to long, might try again shorter. Hope the photos show enough for you. The layout I have in mind seems to work well for me I didn't deviate from my plan. Lots of storage. Adequate room for seating and cabin enter/exit. I may have to get creative making the dining table fit and stow/sleep. But seems doable to me. I think the lower storage and under seating and counter cabinet flooring can be plywood and cabinets, counter and seating trunks AL. The two feet under door landing and "L" seating area is for utilities. House and starting Batteries, bilge pump, blower motors and ducting, cabin heater and ducting, and fish box diaphragm drain pump. I feel comfortable with the layout and spaces. My suspension seats should arrive early next week then I can see how they fit. What do you think?
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Looking starboard and forward from doorway. Small red cooler is in position of passenger swivel seat
Looking starboard and forward from doorway. Small red cooler is in position of passenger swivel seat
Looking forward and port small blue cooler in position of captains swivel seat
Looking forward and port small blue cooler in position of captains swivel seat
Looking forward at dash and trunk cabin doorway
Looking forward at dash and trunk cabin doorway
Sitting in trunk cabin doorway looking towards stern and starboard. Large blue coolers part of the "L" shaped seating and table area. Notice the 12" high, full floor storage underneath seating.
Sitting in trunk cabin doorway looking towards stern and starboard. Large blue coolers part of the "L" shaped seating and table area. Notice the 12" high, full floor storage underneath seating.
Sitting in cabin trunk doorway looking towards stern and port. Black action packers are in position of counter top that will hold a small sink and 2 burner propane cooktop with storage for propane and water tanks underneath. Notice the 12" high of full floor storage below counter top and captains chair
Sitting in cabin trunk doorway looking towards stern and port. Black action packers are in position of counter top that will hold a small sink and 2 burner propane cooktop with storage for propane and water tanks underneath. Notice the 12" high of full floor storage below counter top and captains chair
Sitting in cabin trunk doorway looking stern and starboard at a lower angle. 12" high Full floor storage and better view of different floor levels
Sitting in cabin trunk doorway looking stern and starboard at a lower angle. 12" high Full floor storage and better view of different floor levels
Same as above looking port under action packers
Same as above looking port under action packers
Door way swing and step landing. It looks like enough room for quick entry and cabin exit. The steps don't seem to be a problem.
Door way swing and step landing. It looks like enough room for quick entry and cabin exit. The steps don't seem to be a problem.
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#367

Post by Tfitz »

I think this cabin layout will work well. It seems functional, has lots of storage and everything will have a place and fit. The step in landing at the door swing will give me a good location for a access hatch to my battery room, pumps and fans. Kmorin must be out of town or at least holding a neutral position on this cabin layout or he would be telling me what was wrong with it by now. I will take his silence as a positive and go for it! I like these suspension chairs. They were pretty inexpensive ($350 Northern Tool). and seem pretty good quality.
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There is enough room behind the captains chair to swivel and face the stove to cook.
There is enough room behind the captains chair to swivel and face the stove to cook.
The angled bottom face of the Dash will have to be removed. I will gain 5 inches of knee room. I will make it look like the passenger side. I will gain even more room by cutting the bottom panel out so my knees can stick inside the trunk cabin
The angled bottom face of the Dash will have to be removed. I will gain 5 inches of knee room. I will make it look like the passenger side. I will gain even more room by cutting the bottom panel out so my knees can stick inside the trunk cabin
I will make the captains dash look like the passenger side, then cut circular area out of both sides for more knee room. But as the chairs sit now there is 10" in front of the chair. That's enough for me.
I will make the captains dash look like the passenger side, then cut circular area out of both sides for more knee room. But as the chairs sit now there is 10" in front of the chair. That's enough for me.
There is room behind the passenger chair to swivel and face the table
There is room behind the passenger chair to swivel and face the table
Started to build the floor beginning at the lowest point and work my way up. Facing forward looking into trunk cabin.
Started to build the floor beginning at the lowest point and work my way up. Facing forward looking into trunk cabin.
Lowest floor facing stern. Made some fancy rounded corners.  Planning to screw the 3/16" plate down for easy access later
Lowest floor facing stern. Made some fancy rounded corners. Planning to screw the 3/16" plate down for easy access later
No wasted door swing space here! Fully opens and is protected as it nests nice against the wall. If the door were facing out it would be vulnerable flapping in the wind. Someone would ram a cooler into it and break it. Or even if you could open and latch it against the back wall it would cover a good part of the big window.
No wasted door swing space here! Fully opens and is protected as it nests nice against the wall. If the door were facing out it would be vulnerable flapping in the wind. Someone would ram a cooler into it and break it. Or even if you could open and latch it against the back wall it would cover a good part of the big window.
I'm glad I reused the original door instead of buying new. I like the way it looks and saved big bucks!
I'm glad I reused the original door instead of buying new. I like the way it looks and saved big bucks!
kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#368

Post by kmorin »

Tfitz, the cabin pics look good, and the multilevel design sure does give some interesting pictures. I had to look at some of the more than a few times going through the entire set back and forth to 'find' references in the upright pics to better understand the sideways pics. But, once I got that done the layout became clear; then the actual cabin sole is only the narrow walkway in the center of the cabin?

That makes sense in terms of the cabin top to sole area and gives lots of stowage under all the raised areas, as well as puts the eye level of the seating up where its more enjoyable for crew and functional at the helm. It looks like you're using ply wood? are those panels just for mocking up? If you're using 1/8" alum. for the surfaces, will you need the extrusion framing too?

Seats look nice, are the pedestals fixed or shock absorbing? That door is the first one of its type I've seen. I've only been involved in more metal and less glass doors, the picture was sideways AND the image wasn't clear to me at first. So when I finally realized what I was looking at I was impressed - is it glass or acrylic? Looks glass but that seems kind of fragile to me? neat looking piece of hardware but I'd have expected there was an extrusion edge of metal? Do you have a link the manufacturer? (might be a sticker on the door somewhere? just curious)

Interesting cabin build, small volume cabins are sort of tight to work. If I were involved in another build that included the interior finish I think I'd be tempted to build the interior with NC routed parts and assemble them, put in them in, wire and finish the boat THEN weld on the cabin maybe at the window band? My memories of burning hours inside the cabin to accommodate the work inside a small space are still with me, maybe just magnified by the fact working down in those tight spaces wouldn't appeal to me today?

Looking good, it will be interesting to see the progress as you finalize the different areas.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#369

Post by Tfitz »

I thought I was going to have to listen to your harp about what a terrible mistake I was making? It's a reliefe for me to hear your "on board" with the multilevel plan! But I depend on you to be critical in your comments. It keeps me on my toes knowing I will have to justify my method and engineering for every job. I always think before I make a cut.... "is this how Kmorin would do it?" Then I go measure it again!
The cabin door is a diamond sea glaze i was told. I know its original and in really good shape for how old it is. I believe it's made out of thick acrylic. There is only a few small scratches and the bushings need replaced in the handle. No big deal, I like all the light it allows in and it's pretty light weight. The cabin sole is the narrow walkway but I think I'm going to angle the corner off on the port side sink counter top to help widen the entry/exit point. And the table and L shaped bench is on the starboard side so that shouldn't give the boxed in feeling. I'm going with 3/16" plate on all the walkways. Then all your steps will feel solid and I can go with less supports and bigger access hatches. I decided to use 1/2" marine plywood in the storage area part of the floor. It's cheaper, things won't slide around as easy, And will be quieter when things get bumpy and start banging around under there. And stronger than 1/8" AL and about the same weight. The seats are nice, built in suspension and drain hole for wet raingear. So the mounting pedestal will be fixed but open underneath inside for stowage area. The second photo shows my newly welded down back wall and hatch hinges. I was trying to think of a simple handle without leaving a bump or recess in the floor to trip on or collect fish parts and water. All I could think of was drill a small hole in the cover and thread a small cord with knots on each end. Something to grab on to and minimal trip hazard and won't collect water. Or is that too getto? Got a better idea?
The next job coming up after the floor will be the dash. Working off the "method of subtraction" before I can position the captain chair I need to get the dash and steering wheel in position. It's going to be tricky trying to making that look good with that goofy right hand throttle / shift lever on a left side steering boat. That's pretty weird setup isn't it? Have you seen left side steering boats with a right hand throttle / shifter before?
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#370

Post by kmorin »

Tfitz, I've never done or for that matter seen a flat plate hatch cover! They do tend to make a little noise at some RPM, as there's usually some vibration due to harmonics and all that tend to rattle plate to plate panels unless they're fastened or weather stripped.

I've always made coamings of channel or angle inside the opening then made edges of the hatch and had the one fit into the other and in this size boat run drain pipe out the side of aft to a bilge sump with a pump. So the hatch seems like it will ship water and fish parts into the bilge? And it will make noise too. Hatch handle-wise I've recessed a cupped half pipe with a bar across the recess and yes they do fill with water but that's what I use bilge sponges for, if they don't dry out on their own. Just the nature of the beast- the small line in the drilled holes for a pull/handle is pretty ghetto, I'll agree.

I'd have at least set a flat bar coaming inside the hatch opening as an edge or sill and recessed the hatch onto that sill so it was flush with the deck, then by running some self stick weather sealant on the bar the hatch would semi seal and stay a little quieter?

I think the door is neat too, and I'll go look up the brand and see if they're still around? The interior levels are a good solution to the living space, no argument from me.

Helm layout. Yes I've done port side helm station with right hand controls, but... the engine/shift controls were top mounting style not a side mounting style like an outboard single lever controller so that made the cables come up directly under the mount for the controller's housing that deck or bottom mounted.

First note, I've had to make a long, narrow 'box-like' housing to hold engine control levers more than once. The top or small end of this box has to be the bottom mounting foot print of the controller's base and then the box ended up intersecting the helm station vertical surfaces for three feet going down - so the shift/throttle could be mounted within reach but... the cables could housed going directly down below the 'tilted out' box.

In regards the side mount style, sometimes single lever, twin cable controller mounted where your controls look like they need to go; some controls allow the handle to come off, and he body of the controller box rotated so the handle is almost at the 'end' of the control. This can allow the body/housing to be almost vertical and the handle still oriented up where its in reach and has range of motion.

But, if there are choke or key or other end of housing mounted controls on the main housing this may not work very well? But the fall back is to buy a good dual or single lever top mount control if you have the side mount style designed for use on the starboard side of the cabin wall?

The helm design method that I use is similar to the cabin. I'd get every single item you'll have to mount on a sheet of plywood and then stack them/lay them out in the rough locations they'll need to be. Next, using a razor knife and tape, I sort of mock the metal panels I'll need to hold the case bezels, using cardboard.

Another place where I'd tend to make the helm 'plate' or dash board on the bench and then put it in the boat after it was built. Just my method of building. I usually TIG this work too, seems to give more control and weld sizing proportional to the work. So don't be shy about cutting and fitting and mitering all the shapes and then buying beer for your tank welder, again, so you get the needed shapes.

It may be possible your instrument list is small enough to get them all in one plane and so you may just end up cutting out a plate that's there and replacing with all the right sized openings cut, drilled and shaped into a new replacement panel? My worst case is filling in the holes that are already cut, or half filling them then re-cutting new openings spanning the filled spots! I'd rather have an entire weld around the whole dash surface to dress than a bunch of fill-ins and a warped top panel.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin
Tfitz
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#371

Post by Tfitz »

Hard to believe it took me all week to get this far on the floor! I just don't know where the time goes when having so much fun!! The supports are all cut and fitted and mostly tacked together now I should get it welded in tonight or tomorrow. The framing should stiffen the sides allot. Looking forward to getting the floor plates in they should really fill the cabin out and look nice. Also looking forward to not working on my knees because the long awaited dash remodel is next!
Probably not so good when you've never seen or made a hatch like mine! Maybe I could find a place on the muscle car project for it. But remember I have a removable floor and supports so I will not have a dry bilge because of center joint and the whole back wall is just an overlap joint so that will drip too. And my bow ice hold water just melts into the bilge. The hatch will be over the insulated fish hold box which will have its own drain and pump so I think the hatch drips will drain into the fish box but the fish box isn't built yet so I'm not sure how it will end up working. I could change the hatch and lip really easy so if you have a good idea let's see a drawing of it. But I won't be working on that for awhile, the dash is next in line.
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#372

Post by Tfitz »

Finished welding the floor frame today. Plan to cut the 3/16" floor plates tomorrow. The plywood was more trouble than it was worth. It was kinda hard to work around and wasn't much cheaper than 1/8 AL. But it's done and it will work out ok. I was thinking about the control shift handle location. And I don't see a problem changing the steering to right hand. I ruled out making the switch to right hand along time ago because of where the cabin door was located and the seating layout I had in mind. But those issues have changed so I don't see why at this time I can't change over to a normal steering config. I'm going to dô a extreme makeover on the dash anyways so I mays well build it the way I want. Since the dash remodel is next, I figured I should get my dash components here so I can position things to fit. So today I ordered the latest Garmin electronics bundle. Went with a 8" screen for my fish finder / chart plotter and radar dome. Hopefully I'll be building the radar arch at some point later this winter
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kmorin
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#373

Post by kmorin »

Tfitz, nice looking framing arrangement I guess the centerline lower level has some step down from the entry/deck level? I wasn't sure from the photos about the entry level/main centerline level but it seems about 12-16" lower? so you can stand below the lower (original) cabin top? Maybe a photo from sitting in the V berth area and looking out the companionway toward the relocated/new after bulkhead would confirm the elevation as you enter the cabin?

I don't see any specific seat pedestal base framing aft of the helm and crew seating/dash areas? If the two cabin sole plates for these areas are 3/16" then I can see you could bolt directly to the plate deck but that seems some span of unframed area? I usually find a need to put some struts down so the wt of the seat and man is taken to the hull stringers.

Metal interiors do tend to 'sweat' compared to plywood but the fitting and finish of both materials is quite a bit of time consuming work. I've generally used epoxy to seal the ply, one soak coat to "soak and seal" and a colored top coat to 'paint' and finish, and that is always a pain to fiddle with goop. I've found that bedding the ply onto aluminum frames is reduced if the ply is sealed and painted and increased in future corrosion if the ply is left unpainted. I'd bed with strips of mastic like roofing membrane so the screws are the only metal to metal corrosion potentials.

MIG welding the framing looks like it would be a bit of a caution with the spray foam already in the bottom? MIG spatter can be some hot droplets on the occasion! I'm sure you've found some way to reduce the fire risk and keep from melting the foam as much as possible? Not good stuff to breath either.

Are you thinking of a pipe or plate radar and antenna arch for the electronics?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai
kmorin
Tfitz
Donator '16
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#374

Post by Tfitz »

The lowest floor level is at my feet in the photos. The first step up in the center going towards the stern is a 4" up. Then the next step up is 12", and that's the level that you step on to coming through the cabin door. And the cockpit deck outside the cabin is 2" higher yet. It sounds like the stepping would be awkward but it's really no problem. All my floor level elevations come from getting the most uses out of the space I have.
I really like your idea of the "long box' to house the control shift lever. Now that it's going to be a RH steering vessel by building that long box I can put the shifter in exactly the right position for me and it will be more or less out of the way up against the RH wall of the boat. Also, the box will be big an empty enough to house most of my electrical. I'm thinking about mounting the distribution panel and different switches there.
That foam catches on fire right NOW! When welding. I try to keep that action to a minimum. The smoke is nasty but that smoke eater machine I borrowed from work really works great! It just sucks those fumes 90 deg away from me and through a hepa filter. It's a good setup.
The seats will be bolted to the 3/16" plate. But no pedistal! I want a box with two sides open for storage. I'm thinking that will put all the weight from the seat near the plate edges so the supports are close to the weight bearing area. If it dosent seem right I can always add more cross supports later. I'm a bit concerned about the amount of weight I'm adding to the boat so I just don't want to add anything that's not necessary.
I put two coats of polyurethane on the plywood to seal it up. The original floor was 25 years old and still solid and had nothing on it. So it will someone else's problem to replace it next time but I will look around for a barrier to put between the wood and AL. I have some old plastic slip n slide snow sleds from when the kids were little I could use. :thumbsup:
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Re: 24' DYI alloy remodel

#375

Post by Tfitz »

What do you think my chance of success would be if I tried to weld two pieces of 3/16 x 44" x 16" plate together on the long side and keep it flat? (Not warping) I would employ every anti warping tactic I know in the process! If I could do this I wouldn't have to buy another sheet of 3/16" AL. I'm at the point with this project where I shouldn't need any more heavy plate so I'd like to use up what I have
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