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yes, saltwater cooled through a heat exchanger then exhaust out the prop hub. The trim tabs are complete. They are the vertical, electric type. Tonight I went from a bare cabin with no floor and side plates or fixtures to "cabin complete". in about 3 hours. plus I got the door mostly installed before calling r quits for the night

Tfitz, looking good from here! The seat pedestal 'box' with the rounded edges?? Is that pipe bent to the U shape then welded to plates? Very nice looking result- round over top and large size bull nosed edges is an attractive shape for a pedestal. Is there a reason for the design- (rounding?) or did you just decide to built that way? Reason being- something's inside this volume? Or... to keep the pedestal from having sharp/plate edges?

Coming along now. I guess we can see why a finished welded-plate boat is expensive- even if done by a crew working a 40 hour week, there's plenty of hours to get all these tasks complete.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai

I wanted the base of the seat pedestal as wide at the bottom as the opening of the hole I cut in the panel below the dash because that is the amount of room available I have for my legs and feet when in the sleeping position. The top of the seat pedestal took shape because I followed the contour of the boat wall and wanted to keep it as big as possible. So the pedestal ended up round at the top because the corners needed to taper off so that when my seats pivots, the bolts that attach the seat swivel to the seat slider rail dosent scratch as the seat rotates 360. So the shape sort of took shape as I built it out of scrap 1" AL electrical buss I got from when we replaced a HV breaker from a substation at work. And I wanted everything smooth and round because that's just how I did everything else on the boat. It has nothing to do with the fact that my outside corner welds look like sh$!#t and that I should have bought a TIG welder long ago!!

Tfitz, as long as you don't get the alum. conduit wet!!! things are OK. That stuff is soft and will dissapear in salt water!

I see the design method was "organic" where it grows as you look at the application and make decisions on the final - as you go along. Works for me, I like the shape, because of the rounding but I'd never have come up with that so I was just asking.

MIG's speed is its best and worst aspects all at once. Its good to go fast, get the weld in and done with minimal heat added but... you have to "get out of Dodge" once you pull that trigger. Unless you swapped wire, tips and settings every time you went to different thickness and joints- it would be very hard (almost impossible) to put down consistently proportional beads. The only way I can get a decent outside corner in MIG is to drop the wire down, allowing me to slow the overall weld, and to carry less puddle volume- not sure anyone else is any better unless we're talking about welding on heavier material where a bigger wire is more in proportion to the weld?

Yes, a TIG set up is super handy for cabin work, most of the full time builders have someone dedicated to TIG work because of the relatively slow speed allowing much more control. IT should be said that most of the time TIG welds are used to get a finished weld And control. That is- where sanding, dressing, finishing is costly to the employer- a single pass weld is less expensive than the MIG Plus Finish work of that MIG weld.

Until I saw your interior pictures of the helm's shifter support box, I didn't realize how much the cabin sides leaned in... Sure, I'd seen the previous photos, and they would show that fact.. but the shift/quadrant base made that inward angle much more obvious to me.

Strip LED's are very space age! Also probably a godsend to be able to see inside those stowage spaces without holding a flashlight? Is there on main LED power supply? or are these strips individually powered off the DC by wiring them as switched drops?

If the "builder's launch" is coming up? I'll assume that's in the River or a lake in the area? I'm not familiar with the ramps into water in your area so I was just curious? I found that I liked to do these as private affairs, once I had the "keys in" I'd announce to friends and family if they wanted to come see the 'launch'- AfteR I'd had the builder's launch!

"Builder's Launch" Learning Experience.

I built one of my first power boats in the late 1970's and got her ready to go a few miles to the Kasilof River ramp (it was more or less public at the time) planning to get there just before high tide to make the launch and retrieval easier.

We backed down, got her wet, fired up the engine and watched the gauges and she looked OK. Moved her over to the dock and tied up in the high water slack, figured we we're looking good so we ran up the engine (still tied up) and put her in gear, pulling on the lines and she immediately began to heat up!

Oop's! what's up with that, so we traced the cooling, and checked her valving, hoses, keel cooler and every thing insight! Nothing was wrong. Arghhh! All these people standing around and I can't even run the boat in gear at the dock to pull on some lines!! Not looking too informed.

So the mechanic gets in the engine compartment, goes over the same parts, hoses, coolant lines and all that I've done. Nothing... and when she's revved up in gear- engine heat starts to climb- right away. Fiddle, piddle, try, fail, still hot but for no reason I can find!

What to do, pull her out, haul her to the shop and start trying to figure out what's up? All the spectators leave, we pull to the shop and put her back inside and take off the hoses, check the flows, re-flow test the keel coolers with manometers connected to see if there's too much resistance- no. We checked the engine's water pump connections, and the thermostat housing, and all the parts.

Finally the mechanic leans on the pulley on the water pump and it turns with just his hand on the sheave! The Woodruff key on the pulley shaft is missing! So when the engine was revved up the resistance of the water pump's load would slip the pulley belt, the pump quit pumping and the engine heated up.

I never held a public launch if I could control the sequence! I had this happen a second time when the skipper took over the boat while in the shop. He'd purchased a used, rebuilt engine and was in charge of the mechanic and engine work, (I let him do his thing while we finished the cabin welding and fishing gear.)

He didn't listen to me... I'd asked that he hook up the hull to fresh water, run the boat on the trailer in the shop yard and make sure his engine was OK? He chose to go to the water and even took the boat out for a run! When he came back he found the glass fiber/mineral wool batts around the dry exhaust had partly MELTED!!! that's one hot exhaust!

He and his rebuilder/mechanic spend a full week trying to figure out what was their problem. The result was: when the engine was being reassembled- the water pump backing plate was left out- so the flow was almost negligible. The engine cooled solely by the convection from the block to the keel coolers- BUT... the jacketed manifolds were not getting enough circulation so their insulation (glass/mineral wool batts) were scorched and had molten crusts (!!) in places.

My opinion is that I'd like to take my boats to the water quietly and make my mistakes visible to me and the crew.... THen I'd break the bottle and all when I know the launch will go well!!!

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai

if my seat pedestals get saltwater wet... then it failed the float test cause it will be on the bottom. ; (

no big fan fair for this occasion. just me n my neighbor for now. my wife will be more interested when the bugs worked out of it

started the engine last night, first time in 2 years. started and ran great. shifting is stiff though. I need to investigate that more but overall everything went well. I used discarded that orange fiber optic interduct remnants to protect my single conductor wiring. it was free and it worked good. I had to split it with my skill saw though.

Tfitz, using the fiber duct for race is a nice touch, stuff is meant to be tough as train wheels so it will last a long time in the boat and protect what's inside. Is this from a blown-in fiber type job?

Detail work looking good, hope the builder's launch is uneventful, pleasant (nice to do these with minimal crew to increase your own enjoyment) and a good chance to enjoy the fruits of the year's work.

It will be interesting to see how you've affected the waterline, how she runs with different wt. distribution and other details. Engine/hull/DC neg. bond install is done well, few even major builders do that job as well as you show yours.

let us know when there's news on your launch.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai

Thanks on the engine bonding but that was all you. At some point months ago you described how to do to it and it sounded skookum to me. Yesterday, after the rear window glass install I stopped by the scales to see what the damage is on the before to after weight gain.....it's about 1500 lb gain! My guess was 500 short. That puts the dry boat wt at 5500. Tommorow will be the float test with 3 55 gal drums of water to see where the water sits with simulated full gas tanks. This trailer will be at its limit for sure. we'll see how the trip to Valdez goes next week maybe a new trailer will get added to the list. I still have about 35 items on my punch list to finish but nothing major. It all seems to be working out so far. Tommorow's float/water line test could be a deal breaker.

It's all good news. The float test went well. My deck won't be underwater due to backwash from the scupper drains, that was my biggest concern. sonar, radar, radio, trim tabs and pumps all worked as expected. So Valdez here we come! hopefully my next post will be of some nice fish and boat efficiency stats.

Tfitz, even for someone who's looked at boats for a while, I'm amazed to recognize she's not 25-28' LOA! Looking at the many photos above, few with scale that emphasized her LOA, I'd gotten used to thinking of the boat as longer, with greater displacement.

The waterline is farther up than I'd expected and the righting moment of a couple hundred pounds to change her trim by the bow reinforces the fact she's light displacement.

Glad the launch went well, and your primary systems worked well, how was the running pitch (bow up angle) with the vertical electric tabs?

Tfitz wrote:trim tabs and pumps all worked as expected

Just checking to see if you ran her bow up, left the throttle alone and just trimmed her to a lower bow pitch- Or used some other technique?

How about top end vs past speed performance? (did you get) Full engine rpm running trimmed? I can't imagine wanting to buy new lower pitch props to account for a bit more overall wt to push- those Volvo duo-prop arrangements probably cost a few weeks' wages?

Did you let the anchor out to full scope (?) then back down and set the hook to see how she held? does the rode get made off to the bow cleat to hold- or does the winch have enough "hold"? (dogs, ratchets, pins? so the anchor can hold directly on the winch drum) Good to hear your winch worked as you'd planned.

It will be great to hear about a trip on the Sound of Prince William, and learn what feedback you'd offer on the 'livability' aspects to your cabin's interior design elements?

Looks nice with the chines wet. Congratulations on a nice remodel job.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai

The body of water we were on was only 2-3 acres so about the time I got to 25-30 MPh it was time to start backing it down or go ashore hard. I did notice as soon as I trimmed up after starting full down it felt like I was two feet higher and really picking up speed. But I know nothing about trim tabs or checking out new boats so feel free to point things out. It's going to take me 2-3 days to pull everything out of the pile of boat and fishing stuff I made 2 years ago to re-outfit this boat and make it fish ready. And I'm still whittling down my punch list before I can even start that. At least I don't have to go to work Monday. 3 weeks off...life is good

Here are a couple of not the highest priority items on the punch list that I finished today. Tommorow is finally the pull out my fishing gear day I've been working for.
To answer your anchor questions, the body of water we tested on was less than 20' deep so I didn't do any of the things you mentioned. But the research I did on that winch told me the line will break before the winch will unwind without doing anything extra but releasing the switch. The guy who sold me the winch said all he ever does on a stuck anchor is power into the line with his motor until the line breaks or anchor frees up. Almost never cleats it off. And he's a charter operator. My goal is not to go on the bow at all. Those will be my famous last words

My son and I are off to a rough start so far on our first PWS trip. Not knowing the boat limits yet I took on to much weight. In Thompsons pass we packed about 250lbs of snow in the fish box and bow coolers. Then a 4-5 days of food and beer. All my halibut tackle and spare rods and reels. filled the tank's with 135 gals gas. Then welcomed my neighbor and his son on board. plus there overnight stuff. We headed out early in calm seas but quickly realized we seemed bow heavy and couldn't even get on step. At 16 MPh we "barged" it 25 miles out to the first fishing spot. But on the way out I noticed my voltage at 12 v not the normal 13 or 14 with engine running....so no alternator at that point. I did drop anchor and we fished a few hours but we had to go back or fix it. I tried to flash the alternator feild but no luck. So as we were "barging" it back to port Valdez in calm and sunny conditions, 10 min into the return trip the boat suddenly went from 16MPH to 30 MPh and we were on step cruising!!
we burned off about 25 gal at 1.2 mpg on the way out. Apparently that 200 lb weight loss was at the tipping point of getting on step or not. I was then able to get to the factory recommended WOT RPM range (5k -5200). so we cruised back to Valdez at 2.1 mpg in time to locate a new alternator in Anchorage and we're waiting for it to arrive by air today. so hopefully tomorrow we will get another shot at going out again after the new alternator installation and removing all unnecessary stuff from the boat.

I just took this photo of the water line with about 95 gal of gas and my son in the bow tied up at the Valdez harbor. Nice and toasty inside with the heater going and about to make bacon n eggs with OJ n coffee!! We have plenty of storage for everything, seating and cabin layout seems great at this point. loved my new chartplotter. We just need to get out of the harbor and get fishing!!!

Disregard all that was said about this boat being overloaded and not able to get on step. I figured out later(by reading the directions) that the trim tabs needed to be calibrated before fully operational and that they would sometime go full down and the control indicated full up! so full down trim tabs was our problem not overloaded. So after the trim tab and alternator issues everything worked great. The drum winch, cabin heater, hot box, fish cleaning table, grill and rod holders, fish box, wash down pump, sink, chartplotter and suspension seats all worked as expected or better. The biggest negative thing was that the ice holds didn't hold ice like I hoped. The snow in the fish box lasted about 2.5 days. The bow cooler was better but not great. My fuel economy with full tanks (135 gal) extended stay gear and food, fishing gear, ice and people was about 2.1 - 2.2mpg. @ 4600rpm and 28mph. And my WOT was 5200rpm @ 35mph. The economy greatly improved later in the trip when we dropped to two people and burned 1/2 the gas in the tank's I saw 2.6mpg @4600rpm and 28mph. I found out that I really didn't need trim tabs for anything but leveling the boat. I normally would start off with trim tabs full up and power trim full down, then as I pick up speed, two or 3 up "bumps" on the power trim button and I was on step and cruzing in the most efficient zone. No trim tabs need unless the boat was not level, then it took just a quick touch of the trim tab control button and I was level. The Garmin 7607xsv chartplotter was absolutely wonderful! It took me a couple days to fumble my way around and find the most useful things about it but what I've discovered so far is really cool. I can plainly see my halibut jig 120' down and bait balls or other fish passing under. The nav and fishing charts are awsome. love it. So far I wouldn't change anything about the cabin layout. Plenty of storage and seating for 4 people. But good sleeping for only 3. We only slept 2 this trip and that was perfect. The heater kept the cabin as warm as you wanted it and the windows fog free. The warm air from the heater ducted through the dash warmed up the whole dash just warm to the touch and it felt good and gave off a nice heat. Cooking was easy with lots of flat surfaces to work off of between the table and sink areas. Out of the 5 nights we stayed in the boat I used the grill 4 times. It worked great even in the rain and I could cook and stay dry under the cabin extension overhang. I never got to clean a big fish at the fish cleaning table but it worked great on the smaller ones we caught. The drum winch/ anchor puller was the best addition / modification i made! It made life so much easier to move around and fish hassel free. I never had to go on bow once! Press the button roll the anchor in. Press a button roll the anchor out. Just that slick and easy. 550' of 5/16 rope and 30' of 3/8 " chain with a 22lb bruce acchor held firm every drop this trip. loved it. The weather was pretty bad so I decided not to go out as far as I wanted so was mostly caught smaller fish. The biggest waves we saw were 5 footers. They trained me pretty quick to just slow down and ease through them (we both hit our head on the ceiling). So as you can probably tell I'm very happy with how the boat performed, makes all the time I spent beating on it seem like a distant bad dream. At this point I'm glad I entered into this project but very glad I'm about done.

Tfitz, glad you had a good maiden voyage of the newly remodeled Predator Control, sounds like a little learning and lots of enjoyment as a reward for the hours of work.

I've never had much luck with metal coolers/lockers/chests or holds, always ended up lining them with plastic to get the real thermal barrier, so the built-ins aren't a surprise to me that the ice thawed in a few days. Conduction is one of aluminum's strong suits! Super glad to hear the anchor winch worked well, that's a modification others may want to look close at adding to their own boats if they're cruising in waters where they spend time on the hook?

I'm not familiar with the type of trim tabs you have but in all trim systems, engine leg/outboard running angle included, the method I've seen most often to tune these settings are something like this: First get the boat running at some RPM, not WOT yet- just some high value say 75% or so? Next, without moving anyone one, any wt, add some engine tilt/tuck and watch the tach and horizon. If the bow is up, and goes down, then the tach will go up- but you don't move the throttle- just the trim of the leg or the tabs. Doing this exercise as different throttle settings and observing the trim and tach is supposed to be most reliable way to learn what balance settings for any given % of throttle works best.

The idea that the tach goes up without more throttle is that the boat's trim is more optimum and resistance has been lowered, and that goes for the angle of thrust of the leg/outboard and the trim tabs. This is essentially the same if you add a hydraulic transom jack to the mix- as well. In practice what all boats have is some bow up attitude at lower throttle, and flatter and flatter running attitude as power is added. The tabs will be pure drag below planing speed (as you found out?) and their effect will be greater pitch effect for less deg down as the overall speed increases.

Glad the hull balances well with the new modifications and existing power.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai

This thread is getting less and less about alloy boat construction and more about alloy boat enjoyment! I think it's time to end this. It's all been great and fun to share the ideas and experiences of this boat remodel project. But it hasn't been ALL "great fun". There was many times I didn't know how I was going to go about building some component of this boat and you said something or gave me an idea or new direction to keep on the path away from building a "Frankenstein" boat. THANK YOU for that Kevin! Now we need to square up. You said one time you wanted some halibut and that's fine. I got extra. But you must have pretty good access to fish living in Kenai? How about some Moose sausage (If I get a moose next month). Or easier for me yet how about I become a ABB site supporter!!!!! You just tell me what you want for all the attention you paid to my project the last 2 years. You helped me build my dream boat. I love everything how it functions and turned out and it dosent get much better than that.

oh I wanted to say I greatly improved the bow ice compartment insulation by covering all the aluminum with foil bubble wrap from Home Depot and 1/2" of sheet closed cell "Armaflex" pipe insulation foam. The ice stayed for 5 days in the bow keeping 1/2 of the fish, the deer and our food cold all that time and we still had a full cooler of glacier ice to dump in the driveway after all the meat was in the freezer.

Tfitz, congratulations on the trip, and a "nicely done" on the design and work. I'm glad you're in the water, the systems worked and the boat performed in all the ways you wanted. You've shown the Forum what a determined owner can do with a welded boat remodel and that's been a great read for those of us in the armchair admiral department.

Sorry that my ribbing about sending halibut was seen as serious !!! (?) I was feebly trying to be funny, but as confirmed, my writing skills are not very well developed. However, as you've offered, I'd appreciate if you'd make a contribution of both your time and money to the Forum in the future. I know it takes a few minutes to read, reflect and reply with a post, and too many readers don't bother (IMO). So it would be a great contribution to the AAB.com Forum if you'd make a regular drop by to read, comment and even go back in your archive and show examples of your work, and explain how you solved any given problem/project/element of your boat.

To me, comments about how you designed the project (from engine covers, to stove mounts; & from helm layouts to ice chests) including such details as materials, overall final shape and use, welding considerations and all those types of details are interesting reading.

Regarding contributing to the Forum as a dues sending Member; I always argue that its good manners to leave a " jug for the shop". If you drop by someone's shop to get a 'tack on something'- I say it was just common courtesy to leave his favorite brand of adult beverage or a few bucks(?) for his trouble.

I usually explain, annually in some post here, that I was raised by an old school guy among his friends and it was considered good manners to leave wood chopped, dry and split at a cabin when you used one during your hunt. It was considered only reasonable to pull the well's plunger (it if had a well?) and put "lard on the leather" to keep it flexible and if you left priming water- you left it in a can with some top cover so it could freeze and swell but not burst. So I consider it good manners to anyone who's come to welder's online aluminum boat building shop (AAB.com Forum) and hung out- to send an annual contribution to help defer the costs to keep the site open?

I enjoyed giving you some feedback, a continuous hard time and my opinions since I'm not building at this time and it sure made your project interesting to me- hopefully the Forum's readers as well? Glad that you felt there was some aid in hearing all the flack I handed out, even if you had to please the boat's Skipper over -armchair admiral's advice.

If it were easy to do, if it was all just pure fun, and if boat building didn't involve a few serious headaches: then our sisters would do it and we'd be looking for work! Thanks for sharing with the Forum all during your project and please make sure we can enjoy future fishing and hunting trips on the Predator Control.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

Will do. Thanks Kevin!

Amazing project! Fun and informative read! You should be very proud of your accomplishments...safe boating to you!!

Pjay, I'm glad you found this project fun and a worthwhile read. I think I feel more lucky at how things turned out rather than proud. My building and design methods were pretty crude and I was always "shooting from the hip". But Thank You for the kind words. SAFE boating to you in your world as well.
Tonight I put my fold down radar arch to the test backing the boat into my cold storage area. Like everything else on this boat, it was a tight fit.... but it worked and 100% custom!

Hello Kevin! We are on the hook, waiting for weather to pass and I have an awesome internet connection out at Hitchenbrook is. I thought it would of interest to update this long forgotten thread with some of the finish improvements I made over the winter. Hope all is well with you. Im doing fine and pretty happy with the boats build and overall performance.

Just a few photos I just took around the boat now.

Tfitz, as usual your project encourages others to see what can be done with a metal boat! Lots of very well thought out details- I think you've packed more into a boat that size than I've seen in boats much larger? I am glad to see the gas bottle on the after deck, not that your gas lines would leak but better aft than in the bunks!

Hope the trip has some more clearing weather? We went from the front end of the front you're sitting out- to sun this am here in Kenai, suppose we'll get the back side in a day or so? Yesterday had high winds and driving rain- our first real soaker of the season, I was glad to be in a shop working on a dry floor!

Thanks for posting, nice looking flat fish, most we see regularly are chicks- they've been heavily fished in our side of the Peninsula.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin