Pilot House; Design-Build

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kmorin
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Re: Pilot House; Design-Build

#26

Post by kmorin »

Digging around on an older drive I found some images related to our discussion of designing and building a cabin for small (<28') boats.

So let's digress and review some design decision sketches that are all done with one hull, hopefully showing a common hull with different brows to see if you 'feel' or react to one better than another? Attractive design is our own perception of any given shape so if one appeals more than another??? I hope to have equipped you above to draw what you prefer?

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If I recall the discussion that generated these illustrations(?) we were on Glen-L's site discussing a cabin or weather helm on the Double Eagle design from Glen L Witt's design catalog? This is the hull from several points of view. Engine mass is simply a box amidships in these images.

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Profile of the same hull with the 'example cabin' above, no after overhang, little rise to the brow lines but some overhang forward and a curved brow shape.

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A similar brow with bit more balance aft as the cabin to overhangs the cabin to provide a bit more shelter under the top. The brow angle and camber are somewhat different too.

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More increase in the same features and some increased rake at the brow, is the overall look changing with the brow's changes?

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In the past some designers liked the look of a cup or cusp in the brow or flying bridge shapes' Profile View, here a short brow has a cusp in the Profile and brow rake is heading toward the vertical.

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Same brow as the last image but viewed from the forward bow quarter to see if this influences the overall 'looks' of the boat? I think it heads to a more traditional look? Some may say a more antique look?

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Exaggerating the brow's vertical ht and increasing the cusp to approach a flying bridge dodger instead of a brow this hopefully illustrates the effect a brow can have a small cabin? Rake is becoming even more vertical compared to the other brows above.

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An outboard Profile View of the most vertically extended and least raked brow, with a cusp along the sides, this begins to recall the 'buy boat' or Chesapeake Bay fishing tenders' cabins.

Regardless of which of the combinations of radius, vertical height and curvature that appeals most to your ideals of a good looking boat, these illustrations should be helpful to designing and building your own cabin with clean elegantly balanced lines of the various shapes needed to keep you out of the weather and leave your boat 'looking good'.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
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goatram
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Re: Pilot House; Design-Build

#27

Post by goatram »

Seeing your Brows and the way to design it is two years late Kevin for me. I wanted one on my boat but my welder/friend is /was not a fan of them. My boat is a Glen L Designed "Coronado" "Norwestern". The Hull was purchased by a customer, brought to BMF thinking he could use it as a research Vessel. Dale Bean of Bean Marine Fabrication (BMF) Designed the Original House and roof lines of the boat. The Design was done for simplicity as was the original handrails. The only thing I salvaged was the roof.

The Beginning of my thread The Journey consisted of a lot of what ifs. Finally Settling on the Fwd Slant of the front windows. The Roof was kept, the sides were cut off and clean plate was used in the redesign. The roof was cut down in overall length for my 11' back deck. We did add some lines to the back of the cabin which might of conflicted with some here but I kinda like the NEW look. The Brow would not have been flowing but a faceted one due to the shape of the roof.

Glenn needs to think of the boat as having no helm installed. A bare Hull waiting to have the Cabin installed. Both of my boats I failed to Cut out and start fresh. I adapted my design to what was already laid down. Kevin is showing what it could look like. I do like Microsoft paint, Import a picture of the boat and draw some cabins. A small Cabin like what Kevin as shown still keeping it a walkaround for South Kalli Fishing in fair weather. We in the PNW and Alaska need a true Fort to fish from.
John Risser aka goatram
33' RBW with twin 250 Hondas (Aliens)
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astglenn
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Re: Pilot House; Design-Build

#28

Post by astglenn »

Wow. This is amazing information Kevin. I need to really look at this and do some "stare and compare" for a moment and really absorb the possibilities. I had really been wrapped around form in terms of trying to normalize my little structure. I really had not considered, at any real depth, the nearly limitless possibilities of changing function so dramatically. I do clearly see how the lines and curves can create such a dramatic effect on the entire look of the boat. Just the interaction of the top lines of a house structure and the hull are huge. You have some serious game Kevin. On sketch up no less. Wow. Thank you.
kmorin
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Re: Pilot House; Design-Build

#29

Post by kmorin »

astglenn, I'm glad you're 'seeing' more than before and that the Forum can help provide some insight into doing your own metal work, starting with drawing and planning on paper or CAD.

I'm moving (here) to look at some other details which may come up in construction planning of a cabin. I'm showing a stand up cabin - maybe a stand alone cabin is better terminology but the window band, top and many of the details can be used in 'fort style' cabins as shown in the pics, so I hope to have this read as "one way"- not my opinion that its the "only way" as the pictures show just a few of the countless variations on these ideas and methods.

One picture I found surfing around but had not posted is a build that I've not seen, don't know the designer or builder or when it was done. I'm posting it here to confirm the brow to side panel cylinder images of my own work posted. This is not one of my boats, but they do some things kind of similar to what I've shown.

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I call your attention to the starboard forward corner of the brow, notice the cylindrical section? I'm not the only one who does it that way. Also please note that side plate's sheer-like curve echos the sheer and when seen in many different view points will form an extremely pretty curve in harmony with the top of the brow- which is curved in both Plan AND Body views, so with the curved corner this brow forms and extra sweet curve up the side of the brow, over the turn, and across to the other side- it results in VERY sweet lines. IMO, of course.

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To reinforce this concept of these several curves as they relate to one another; and how much a fan of these lines I might be... I offer the stern of a little 14'er I did some years ago. I feel confident you'll see these similar lines in this skiff's stern. The side sweeps up, in the after run, is turned by a pipe 90 butt welded corner and then the stern, like cabin brow is raked aft, and curved in both Plan and Body views.
Extra credit for those who could pick out the transom sides to topsides corner is cambered (outward) in the vertical? AND double extra for those that noted the 'wrapped' railing is cut in a curve on the top of the tapered angle piece on the transom. :beer:

OK; lets go back to some building details.

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Here is a seam between the cabin top and the window band with no overhang, allowing a very easy outside corner weld seam- MIG or TIG its a good seam prep.

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Buttttt... This will run water on the window and probably leak in the side window if it is a slider! Yes, so you could add an outside overhand that will also hold the hand rail on the cabin top. The seal weld can be stitched instead of continuous as the remained can be calked or sealed. This upper joint can be welded but it will work fine if the entire joint is not fully welded. The pipe hand rail can stand on the upper cut out legs and the overhanging sill will help dry out the cabin side windows.

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It may be appropriate to mention that I was discussing a stand alone or free standing cabin here, so the images are not longer integrated 'fort' type cabin details.

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This will work on longer cabin structures as well, here we're just changing view point to enhance the illustrations' details delivery.

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Not the best close up of this detail (!) but at least it can be seen this is how the cabin (fort style) was done on this day boat's cabin top.

The reason to mention this detail is that the edge of the cabin could overhang the window band and help reduce dripping and rain runoff. The side pieces are easy to add, cheap to form and work wonders as a set of solutions to several design issues. Last, these details make the cabin easier to plan and build.

astglenn, in case you haven't noticed I've started another thread about remodeling so we can look at the hull remodel element and a fort or integrated style cabin. This thread was to post some ideas and methods I've used in the past but I was focusing free standing or walk-around style not as much the integrated to the sheer and deck 'fort' style.

Incidentally, astglenn, we use that term because our Florida Fishing Fantom 'Captain Dave of the JettyWolf' used the term as a joking reference to boats in the PNW with cabins we typically use to be able to use boats offshore more than one weekend in July every year. Forts... OK?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
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Re: Pilot House; Design-Build

#30

Post by downline »

Kevin I have book marked this page. There is so much to grasp here on cambering the bottom of my skiff that I have to study for a bit. What I thought was going to be simple since I decided on flat bottom has become complex to some extent. I want it to be done so it performs correctly in the water and that is why I will delay cutting anything until I figure this camber issue out. Flat bottom does not mean flat if the best result is desired, which I do. Thank you for taking the time to post this. D
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