Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

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gandrfab
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Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#1

Post by gandrfab »

I have an opportunity to get one of these. I would need to tig weld with it, anodized aluminum.

What's the availability of a high frequency box for this machine?
Is it worth bothering with?



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gandrfab
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#2

Post by gandrfab »

If it is worth it, it better weld like a dream. 2k for the tig box.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LINCOLN-ELECTRI ... 1645204566
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#3

Post by welder »

Had a HF on a Lincoln G7 running a Air Cooled torch and it was a little hard to do fine work, got to MOOOOOOOVE on the thin alloy. Would weld Mild and Stainless pretty dang nice .
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#4

Post by gandrfab »

The on the water tower repair and add on work, I would be targeting is mostly sch 40 pipe (about 1/8" wall) and some 1/4".
All push button on/off at the torch no foot pedal.
Set the machine hot to burn through the anodized and control the weld temp. by turning it on and off. :shocked:
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#5

Post by gandrfab »

Something I like about this tower work is not many can do it, he has 5 machines he just upgraded.
I have worked on a few of his boats and he needs more boat work..
He's a metal building erector currently putting up the new spaceX building.

Looks like I may work it out in trade. Now to find a deal on a HF box, water cooled torch that with a 50' lead or more.
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#6

Post by gandrfab »

Just got it, now I need a HF box, water cooling tank, about 100' of water cooled tig torch lead and a trailer for it.
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#7

Post by welderbob »

you may find that it is cheaper to plug and inverter/tig machine into this and just use it as a generator .

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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#8

Post by gandrfab »

To weld the anodized towers I need to run the machine at 220-230 amps.
Do the inverts run water cooled torches?
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#9

Post by welderbob »

sure, look for a used miller dynasty 300. draws a max of 40amps (not sure exactly without looking at my machine ). It has a high freq, you can also increase the frequency which blasts through the anodizing . You might have less money into it than a new high freq box. I'm not a Lincoln guy but a Miller trailer blazer in only 200 amp AC.
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#10

Post by kmorin »

G&R, I've not done the 'bump' TIG method to flood puddle under anodized tubing myself, but I'd note that those who do seem to use the pedal or slider (output control) quite a bit. I think an inverter power supply with arc controls could be set to provide that wave pattern easier than this welder could every provide pedal driven similar amplitude of the output amperage?

I'd note that the transformer type power supply (as shown) has a series of analog electronic controls controlling output with a 'flyback' transformer controlling the power transformer's output? I'd say this cascaded method of control of the output will be slower ramp rate than an inverter by far. (100x slower approx.)

That all translates to a very slow up and down pedal response from this type of power supply which is, I think, designed to "set and weld" not to support fully controlled waves in TIG output AC even by the pedal.

In bump TIG methods as I read on other sites, the rate of the up and down slope are very important to be able to weld 'under' the anodizing layer? If you mash the pedal and have to wait 1/2 second to get the full surge or lift off the pedal and wait for amperage to subside.... then its like having a mushy steering or brakes when driving. I'd say that was less desirable than the 'tight' control- so that's where an inverter would help.

I'll agree that W'Bob's suggestion seems much more likely to deliver the kinds of welds you're describing. Let's take his suggestion of a Miller 300DX for example. It will run on 220VAC which the gen/set will output and since the tube welds don't call for 100% duty cycle at full amperage for hours at a time.... you could expect to weld in 1 and 2 minute intervals- tube welds- at up to 300 amps. The next gain is; you can easily set the inverter type power supply's controls to a (square) wave pattern that would accomplish the bump method used by the tower welders.

Since I've not tried what you're asking about I'm not much of a reference. But I have done some experiments with the Miller 300DX and its arc controls and they (can) produce very high quality TIG beads. None of the following images are of anodized aluminum they're just 5086 plate welded to 6061 pipe ends - all bare metal welded with 5356 alloy filler (wire as I'm using a TIG Gun).

Image

A couple of pipe end flat caps done with variations of the 'pulse' features settings. The left side smaller pipe is at higher rates of pulse per second and different peaks and background amperage settings. The right, larger pipe end is with slower pulses, all around in each quadrant the settings were varied to explore weld results.

Image

One of the aspect that W'd'Bob has inferred but not fully demonstrated for you is; with the inverter arc controls- there is an almost infinite number of combinations of High Surge Amperage (upper amplitude of wave) + High Surge Amperage Time (top flat width of square wave pattern) + Low Amperage (background or lower amplitude of wave) + Low (background amperage) Period Time (low flat width of square wave pattern). That all combines to allow you to set up welds that look like those above with their different patterns' widths and different cross sections.

I hope this explored a little bit more why the suggestion of an inverter using the Lincoln as AC power may hold more long term potential success for your proposed field welds of anodized aluminum?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#11

Post by gandrfab »

I have been welding for 23 years and I still don't know what I'm doing. Thanks for the help guys
I'll have more questions before this is up and running.

I had a idea last night could I plug my miller syncrowave 250 in to the front of this Ranger 8?
Will it work?
Could it hurt my miller?
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#12

Post by welderbob »

A miller syncrowave is a transformer type machine it draws a 100amp to get the 250amp ac you need to weld 1/4" aluminum. Your ranger 8 will only put out 30 some old amps. A 300 amp inverter style machine will only draw 35-40 amps to get the same 250amp AC. There is no easy/cheap way.

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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#13

Post by gandrfab »

How about some recommendations on inverter machines, my google is working well for me on this subject.
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Re: Ranger 8 Welder/Generator?

#14

Post by gandrfab »

welderbob wrote:A miller syncrowave is a transformer type machine it draws a 100amp to get the 250amp ac you need to weld 1/4" aluminum. Your ranger 8 will only put out 30 some old amps. A 300 amp inverter style machine will only draw 35-40 amps to get the same 250amp AC. There is no easy/cheap way.

welderbob
:banghead: 100amp problem I have 3 marinas I know could weld at, one of them just got a major upgrade.
None of them will run 100amp down to the dock :banghead:

2 of the marinas call me regularly for jobs that can come off the boats and then get reinstalled.
One of the marinas doesn't even ask for the normal 10% cash kick back for working on their dock.
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Portable TIG

#15

Post by kmorin »

G&R, first if the parts are on the docks off to come get these parts/pieces/assemblies and take them to the shop and rework them and haul back. Not portable TIG.
#2 IF they can't be hauled then portable TIG is much easier by simply getting the needed size Honda Gen that will handle the full draw or load of a good Inverter.
#3 Inverters from importers are less expensive but have little or no distribution network in so 'support' like replacement parts or power supplies in an emergency from a local distributor are limited compared to the US brands which cost more to begin- but.. are better as backing up the sale, and replacing parts when needed. Pay for service that is local with higher initial costs or save some in the first price but end up with a less widely available service back up. Not an easy choice.

#4 Miller has purchased Hobart so the two companies offer fine TIG power supplies (discussing inverters only) and the controls are very extensive.
#5 Lincoln offers good quality power TIG power supplies but until the last two years did not offer the arc controls *** equal to Miller's but as of 2012, Lincoln offers comparable inverter TIG controls.

What to do? Ask local welding suppliers (LWS) to bring a demo unit in of the ranges of power supplies you want to test- IF these are not already stock?
Test the power supplies and see which set of arc controls "feel" (this is a feel deal) best?
Get that power supply.

I use Miller TIG and Lincoln MIG but I have 10 and 12 year old power supplies so I'm not a good reference on what is the latest or 'best' choice in the market. Liked the Miller controls on the TIG and the Lincoln controls on the MIG but I want to make clear the LWS manager of Air Gas is so dedicated to his customers he brings in Factory reps to introduce the power supplies and lets you weld with them -before you buy. Not sure if that's wide spread but it allows an informed purchase and I like that.

*** wide ranging discussion subject of countless thousands of posts online!

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai AK
Last edited by kmorin on Sun May 24, 2015 6:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: typo's; lots of them
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