Buying a Welder

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AlloyToy
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Buying a Welder

#1

Post by AlloyToy »

Guys,

Anyone know a decent make & model welder that is capable of welding on my boat & others that will handle up to 1/4" 5086? Wanna add handrails , rodholders, outriggers etc.....
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#2

Post by Chaps »

There are basically two types that can be considered, mig or tig. Mig is the wire feed type machine that was used to build your boat and is better suited to production type welding where you are laying down a good bit of weld. Tig is better suited to small work, is more controllable, etc.

You can sometimes pick up used tig welders fairly reasonable. I'd look for something with a minimum of about 200 amps with A/C high frequency start in a Lincoln or Miller. Older machines are generally big & heavy but far less expensive. If you go that route be sure you get a single phase machine (unless you have access to 3 phase power in your shop).
Last edited by Chaps on Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
AlloyToy
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#3

Post by AlloyToy »

Thanks, yeah I have a Hobart Tig now at the shop..... may try it, or add a coil feed attachment. I don't know if it's powerful enough to weld 1/4" aluminum.

I was thinking of a Mig for home. Never did Mig.
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#4

Post by Chaps »

AlloyToy wrote:Thanks, yeah I have a Hobart Tig now at the shop..... may try it, or add a coil feed attachment. I don't know if it's powerful enough to weld 1/4" aluminum.

I was thinking of a Mig for home. Never did Mig.
It doesn't sound like the stuff you want to do will involve welding 1/4" to 1/4" so it might handle the job. Some machines are multi-function power supplies and can both tig & mig with the proper gear attached but they are not too common so it depends on the model you have.

If you want to go with a mig at home the first thing you want to confirm is you have adequate power in your panel to run the machine you decide to buy. I have a Lincoln mig in my shop that welds aluminum beautifully of virtually any thickness but I could never run it at home, it would probably brownout the neighborhood if it was cranked up.
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#5

Post by AlloyToy »

Chaps wrote:
AlloyToy wrote:Thanks, yeah I have a Hobart Tig now at the shop..... may try it, or add a coil feed attachment. I don't know if it's powerful enough to weld 1/4" aluminum.

I was thinking of a Mig for home. Never did Mig.
It doesn't sound like the stuff you want to do will involve welding 1/4" to 1/4" so it might handle the job. Some machines are multi-function power supplies and can both tog & mig with the proper gear attached but they are not too common so it depends on the model you have.

If you want to go with a MIG at home the first thing you want to confirm is you have adequate power in your panel to run the machine you decide to buy. I have a Lincoln MIG in my shop that welds aluminum beautifully of virtually any thickness but I could never run it at home, it would probably brownout the neighborhood if it was cranked up.
LMAO.......your neighbors would love you. I'll practice a little more with the TIG.......the last thing I want is to blow holes through any part of the boat.

Thank you for you help
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#6

Post by JETTYWOLF »

Are ya thinking of welding a ladder together AlloyToy?

That would be good practice with some nice thick aluminum pipe and plate for the steps. Then Maybe even weld it to the trailer instead of like mine which is bolted.....certainly would be permanant then, huh.

I want to learn so bad too....that I often thought about seeing if the local community college has welding classes in the evening. They used to have Captain License courses, I did them years ago.

I'd go to them if they had welding. To learn the proper ways of doing it, rather than some friend just showing me his habits.

Then there's the buying of a unit. I'd have to sell off alot of my G. Loomis collection to do that, right now.
AlloyToy
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#7

Post by AlloyToy »

Yeah Capt. Dave..........your ladder ROCKS!!!!!

I'll have something by spring.

I own a Tig as I mentioned but it's in a tough local and hard wired in the welding room of my shop. Gotta get creative there.

Here's something.......the place I bought my welder years back offers lifetime personal classes. Just bring in whatever, and they work with you and teach you the do's and don't's specific to that project

Time Man Time..............I'd rather fish then weld, but even bringing the boat to a local fab shop..........get in line

That's why choosing everything you want on a boat is important when ordering.........live N learn
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#8

Post by welder »

Alloy Toy , what it would cost and what you might do to your boat , it would be more cost efficent to hire a pro. and get it over with.

Not doubting your work or skill lever but it would get done faster and you could do other things [ Like Fish ]

Either way we want pics before and after. :)
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AlloyToy
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Little Things

#9

Post by AlloyToy »

Grab Rails, want to build a ladder like Capt. Dave's, Add rod Holders etc....just kickin it around
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#10

Post by Charlie and Titan »

How about a Miller Millermatic 180 with a spoolmate 100 spool gun is about the least expensive (~$1000). Miller DVI2 set up for aluminum with a spoolmate 3035 is a little more (~$1800).

I've been shopping to upgrade my Lincoln to build a alloy boat.

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#11

Post by AlloyToy »

I'll check it out.
Thx.
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#12

Post by welder »

Alloy , have ya found a welder yet ?
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#13

Post by AlloyToy »

Welder, I have a Hobart TIG at the shop. I have a guy coming in to demo an add on MIG coil feed. I'm gonna show him what I want to do and get his 2 cents.
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#14

Post by welder »

Be sure to ask him about differant inert gases , some work better on thicker metal as there liter and dont cool the metal off as much [ read , better penitration ]

let us know what ya do'
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#15

Post by Skotdoe »

I have a Millermatic 200 w/spoolgun and have had good luck with it.
50 amp connection and puts out 250amps I feel comfortable welding
up to 3/8 and in some cases 1/2" plate though i will preheat in the case of the 1/2". I should think 150 to 200 amps of output should be fine for .25 to .25. With the mig you would either use a straight argon or if you need
a little more heat a helium 50% x argon 50% mix has always worked for me though welding with the mix is more tricky as far as torch postion and putting down somthing clean.
Being my first post I'd like to say hi to everyone. :D
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#16

Post by welder »

Skotdoe, great answer and first post.

WELCOME to the forum.
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#17

Post by Bullshipper »

We have 5 300 amp Miller migs at the shop, but no spool gun.

I was wondering if the newer square wave mig machines were worth the investment and if the python gun was the way to go.
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#18

Post by AlloyToy »

Thanks for the input.

Is MIG easier than TIG IYHO?

We preheat all out alum plate at the shop before TIG welding. However our welder over heats on big jobs and shuts down
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#19

Post by Chaps »

Bullshipper wrote:We have 5 300 amp Miller migs at the shop, but no spool gun.

I was wondering if the newer square wave mig machines were worth the investment and if the python gun was the way to go.
Bull, You mean pulsed mig? They are pretty cool. I've got a Lincoln PM350 that can weld .063 as easily as .250 with minimal distortion and heat affected zone. Skypoke has one too and he's pretty pleased with it. Python gun is almost mandatory if you want to take full advantage of the brains in the machine.

Image

This is some .080" 5052 scraps mig welded with .035" 5356 wire, pulse-on pulse mode with the 350 and I'm not anything close to being what I would call a good welder. Welds so smooth it looks like extruded t-bar.
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#20

Post by welder »

Chaps , just gussing here but it looks like your a little to hot or ya need to speed up the wire speed.

I want one of them 350's.
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#21

Post by Chaps »

Yes, I tend to go too slow but the machine doesn't penalize me too much (which is a good thing). Vertical and overhead are just as forgiving too . . . I call it "welding for dummies".
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#22

Post by Bullshipper »

That weld looks pretty good to me.

I see a lot of variations in price on these units running from $4-$6K new which I imagine depends on the guns and wire feeders.

Any suggestions as to which feeder is best for a shop that will use it a lot, and if the pulsed machine really runs cool enough to use the air cooled gun?

The machine will also do tig on tight areas too, right?
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#23

Post by Chaps »

Bullshipper wrote:That weld looks pretty good to me.

I see a lot of variations in price on these units running from $4-$6K new which I imagine depends on the guns and wire feeders.

Any suggestions as to which feeder is best for a shop that will use it a lot, and if the pulsed machine really runs cool enough to use the air cooled gun?

The machine will also do tig on tight areas too, right?
I think the machine with the air cooled Python push-pull is now going for around $5500 from the on-line sellers. Probably about $1k less with a spool gun.

I've heard that the shops that use it for production (continuous) hull welding of thicker materials upgrade to the water cooled gun. The pulsing definitely keeps things cooler overall.

The machine is a great tig unit (and stick) too but not on aluminum because it is a DC machine. Fact is though that a lot of alloy welding you would normally need to do in tig can be done in mig with this machine because it will easily establish and maintain an arc at very low power levels.

Miller has a pulse machine too but I think the Lincoln has more capabilities. There are also some euro machines, can't remember their names though.
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#24

Post by Bullshipper »

Its my understanding that the push pull is almost essential with the soft al wire, so it sounds like the more expensive set up is the way to go.

I will check my other MIG machines to see if they are tig capable.

Thanks for your guidance on this.
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#25

Post by welder »

We can tig weld on just about any machine [ stainless or mild steel ] with an air cooled scratch start torch, piece of cake .

Now to do aluminum we are going to need a AC machine and a High Freq. unit . I had on on a Lincoln G7 portable . It was good for repairs on 1/16" and thicker as you could not controll the lower heat good enough.

Machines are like Boats no one machine can do it all , Perfect.
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