Maybe George will join in on how to get the raft deployed if needed. I'm sure one would fit in the back to back seat storage locker if you have that option. What about survival suits for everyone aboard?
Adrian
Does paying for foam buy offshore security?
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capeannfisherman
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:55 am
- 16
- Location: Ashburnham Ma
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Ironwoodtuna
- Donator '09 '10
- Posts: 510
- Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 9:27 pm
- 16
- Location: Montauk, NY
SAFETY
Bullshipper,
As you and the rest know I like not having foam, but on smaller boats the pros may be more than the cons.
To me, on boats over 26' or so, I like having watertight bulkheads, electric pumps in the engine compartment and, as in my boat, I have the large bellows hand pump. It is connected to three different 2" hoses which enter into each sealed compartment at the top and run down to the bottom keel area of each chambered area. THis hand slectable fitting allows the pumper person to manually keep up with a leak. I only have two through hull fittings which are in the engine compartment. I carry some wooden tampered plugs to pound into on of the holes if the s/s threaded pipe that is threaded into the 2" x 2" x 1" welded in block broke off. THe extra large bellows pump is only good if you are on board but you did say "OFFSHORE SAFETY".
I also think that the chances of penetrating a 1/4" thick plate bottom would be very hard, but with 5/16" bottom plate the chances of a actual penetration are slim-to-none! I would spend the extra dollars on thicker plate bottom over foam. Just my opinion.
I do like the idea of foam in the under the gunnel chambers that PS and BLM do if you don't mind loosing the space. It is not going to get water logged and should keep the boat upright in a swamping as long as you weren't flipped. Either that or compressed air filled chamber, (with a guage to make sure the chamber is always holding its slight air charge is another cool idea. i think!?!?
As far as location of the life raft and I do recommend it be a MANADAORY NECESSITY for offshore fishing, under your leaning post or on the outer cabin wall is prime locations. When I did the "RESCUE AT SEA" TV show with Tred, two years ago. There is a lot of thought that needs to be given and drills to be run for a real life ABANDON SHIP situation. It was an experience that EVERY offshore fishermans should be able to train and experience BEFORE it really happens to them.
Although it was cool to get slung out of the water by helicopter and to see and experience how well our COast Guard and Military are trained, a lot can go wrong and you need to take the time to talk, discuss and tell each and every crew member that walks onto your boat what the real deal is and what and how it will happen, should the Doo-doo hit the FAN!
As you and the rest know I like not having foam, but on smaller boats the pros may be more than the cons.
To me, on boats over 26' or so, I like having watertight bulkheads, electric pumps in the engine compartment and, as in my boat, I have the large bellows hand pump. It is connected to three different 2" hoses which enter into each sealed compartment at the top and run down to the bottom keel area of each chambered area. THis hand slectable fitting allows the pumper person to manually keep up with a leak. I only have two through hull fittings which are in the engine compartment. I carry some wooden tampered plugs to pound into on of the holes if the s/s threaded pipe that is threaded into the 2" x 2" x 1" welded in block broke off. THe extra large bellows pump is only good if you are on board but you did say "OFFSHORE SAFETY".
I also think that the chances of penetrating a 1/4" thick plate bottom would be very hard, but with 5/16" bottom plate the chances of a actual penetration are slim-to-none! I would spend the extra dollars on thicker plate bottom over foam. Just my opinion.
I do like the idea of foam in the under the gunnel chambers that PS and BLM do if you don't mind loosing the space. It is not going to get water logged and should keep the boat upright in a swamping as long as you weren't flipped. Either that or compressed air filled chamber, (with a guage to make sure the chamber is always holding its slight air charge is another cool idea. i think!?!?
As far as location of the life raft and I do recommend it be a MANADAORY NECESSITY for offshore fishing, under your leaning post or on the outer cabin wall is prime locations. When I did the "RESCUE AT SEA" TV show with Tred, two years ago. There is a lot of thought that needs to be given and drills to be run for a real life ABANDON SHIP situation. It was an experience that EVERY offshore fishermans should be able to train and experience BEFORE it really happens to them.
Although it was cool to get slung out of the water by helicopter and to see and experience how well our COast Guard and Military are trained, a lot can go wrong and you need to take the time to talk, discuss and tell each and every crew member that walks onto your boat what the real deal is and what and how it will happen, should the Doo-doo hit the FAN!
"IRONWOODTUNA" the Alloy Sportfisherman Battleship!-
Bullshipper
- Posts: 199
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:53 pm
- 16
- Location: Mexico
IW,
I guess I don't understand how a watertight bulkhead works.
If a chamber is watertight and doesn't have a vent, how can it be pumped out?
If it can't be pumped out, how do you remove condensation, how do you know if its leaking?
How do you test it?
How do you keep hot air from expanding the chambers with pressure spead out or large areas that will also contract when cold working plates and welds ?
If you don't have a bilge pump exibiting water as its pumped out how would you know if welds are not cracking under the water line?
Plate is strong, but welding heat can also distort and put stresses on a structure, plates and welds, so leak detection seems like a nesesity in my mind.
I guess I don't understand how a watertight bulkhead works.
If a chamber is watertight and doesn't have a vent, how can it be pumped out?
If it can't be pumped out, how do you remove condensation, how do you know if its leaking?
How do you test it?
How do you keep hot air from expanding the chambers with pressure spead out or large areas that will also contract when cold working plates and welds ?
If you don't have a bilge pump exibiting water as its pumped out how would you know if welds are not cracking under the water line?
Plate is strong, but welding heat can also distort and put stresses on a structure, plates and welds, so leak detection seems like a nesesity in my mind.
First off, a plug for Bullshipper. He's a crusty, opinionated expat who won't hesitate to offer an opinion and support it. He's also a storehouse of info on cat design and has been an excellent guy to bounce ideas off, I've stolen more than a few of his concepts and used them to advantage. There's no ax to grind there. When he finally gets around to building one of the designs I have no doubt it'll be among the most optimally outfitted fishing rigs around.
Regarding the foam, we have foam blocks stuffed into gunwales, along cabin sides and some blocks in unused midships belowdecks area. I'm of the opinion that foam in the actual bilges is a real bad idea because bilges should be accessible, inspectable and cleanable. Foamed bilges also make your boat bouyant UPSIDE DOWN, and contribute to a boats tendency to invert upon sinking. If you take a look at the USCG site, they cover this in great detail and show how to calculate flotation for level flotation. It takes less than you might think.
We have a watertight collision bulkhead forward in our boat, seam welded both sides, inspectable from hatches. Hulls are further segmented by two other solid bulks. Each partition has a 2500 Rule pump exhausting well above water line. There is theoretically enough flotation foam (all removable with effort) to support the boat with powerheads above water. I hope to never prove this. The belt and suspenders approach gives me enough confidence to forego hull insurance so I've paid for it several times over. Oh yeah, the life float (like a small rigid life raft) is bungeed onto the top at all times.
I know of several cat sinkings resulting from non segmented hulls. One was the result of a no go bilge pump, transom too low, water intruding into deck plates, divers below who had a rude surprise when they surfaced. The other, which we attempted to salvage without success was floating inverted, bows out of the water. Broken thru hull, no bilge alarm or pump, non segmented hull.
Our final defense is zero below water thru hulls. If I need water pickup I'll do it over the transom.
Chuck
Regarding the foam, we have foam blocks stuffed into gunwales, along cabin sides and some blocks in unused midships belowdecks area. I'm of the opinion that foam in the actual bilges is a real bad idea because bilges should be accessible, inspectable and cleanable. Foamed bilges also make your boat bouyant UPSIDE DOWN, and contribute to a boats tendency to invert upon sinking. If you take a look at the USCG site, they cover this in great detail and show how to calculate flotation for level flotation. It takes less than you might think.
We have a watertight collision bulkhead forward in our boat, seam welded both sides, inspectable from hatches. Hulls are further segmented by two other solid bulks. Each partition has a 2500 Rule pump exhausting well above water line. There is theoretically enough flotation foam (all removable with effort) to support the boat with powerheads above water. I hope to never prove this. The belt and suspenders approach gives me enough confidence to forego hull insurance so I've paid for it several times over. Oh yeah, the life float (like a small rigid life raft) is bungeed onto the top at all times.
I know of several cat sinkings resulting from non segmented hulls. One was the result of a no go bilge pump, transom too low, water intruding into deck plates, divers below who had a rude surprise when they surfaced. The other, which we attempted to salvage without success was floating inverted, bows out of the water. Broken thru hull, no bilge alarm or pump, non segmented hull.
Our final defense is zero below water thru hulls. If I need water pickup I'll do it over the transom.
Chuck
Texian, born and bred.