Which bottom paint ?

[nmccubbin]

We have an aluminum sailboat (www.mccubbin.ca) and have so far avoided uisng any copper based antifouling. We used Epaint in the States, and Hempel Alusafe when in France last year.
Now we are in Scotland, and cannot find any copper free paint

International claims that the copper in isothiocyanate form in Trilux 33 will not react with aluminum, but they are real keen on a thick epoxy barrier coat. I cannot believe any barrier coat will be perfect after several months sailing.

What is your experience? Is Trilux 33 OK?

What bottom paint do you use?

Any electrolysis issues with your bottom paint/antifouling?

Thanks
Neil

[Chaps]

I paint a fair number of alloy boats and have found that Petit Vivid is a far superior copper thiocyanate coating to Trilux 33. Better anti-fouling and tougher paint overall. I wouldn't put it directly on a bare hull, put down a primer like Petit AlumaProtect along with an Interlux or Petit epoxy barrier coat over that. You'll get better adhesion and hull isolation. The barrier coat is very tough assuming the application is done correctly. You'll never see your hull again.

[IronwoodIsland]

Hi Chaps

I'd second that - Trilux has not been a stellar antifouling performer for me here in Vancouver BC, although it is readily available, unlike e-paint which no one seems to want to bring into Canada. Trilux also ablades off easily - I know, you can see it rubbed off all over the logs that always seem to wash up next to my boat and it comes off when i scrub with a long handled brush.

Interesting that Petit Vivid works well, i wonder if overcoating it over Trilux would work instead of having to remove all the Trilux down to the barrier coat???

GP

[Chaps]

Vivid can be applied over most anything though in the case of over coating Trilux 33 I'd scrub the heck out of it first because that stuff is pretty soft.

I just high pressure washed a boat I painted last year with Vivid and no paint came off as I was doing it. There was no growth either, just dirt and a bit of slime. They call it an ablative but its pretty hard. Not sure you can get it up there, you might have to go to Bellingham to buy it.

Another paint for alloy boats that I'm hearing good things about (but have no personal experience with) is SeaHawk Smart Solution copper free ablative. I intend to do a couple of client's boats with it this year to see how it does.

[IronwoodIsland]

Has anyone used Epaint's Sunwave Bottom Paint on an alloy hull? This is a water based epoxy, hard finish but ablative release paint with their photo-active (zinc omide?) formulation. Sounds like it does not have a biocide so something like their EP-2000 or ZO-HP might be better for a wet moored hull in the PNW.

I've just about had it with Trilux 33 - Wears off quickly and does not seem to inhibit barnacles much - would be cheaper to just haul the boat every 3 months and pressure wash vs painting each year with Trilux.....

[Chtucker]

Paging Chaps, Paging Bob... I am OK with my EPaint, but i keep the boat in fresh water. I think their are better options
http://www.pettitpaint.com/product.asp?id=11

Prep is the key, and a proper system isneeded (epoxy, protectant and bottom paint)

Bob will get you straight.

[IronwoodIsland]

Thanks Mssr. Tucker

No Pettit up here in Canada, not sure if I could even bring it back across the line, probably not due to our "approval" systems here.

Same re hauling boat the other way for and getting Chaps to do an excellent job.

Cheers from up here.

[Chaps]

I'm still putting on quite a bit of Pettit Vivid and have recently tested and am pleasantly surprised at the results I'm getting from Flexdel Armor which is a solvent based non-copper coating that uses econea and a slime component but seems to work much better than other products I've tried with the same biocides. It's also pretty hard and tough so it resists bunk rash. I put it on a few boats last year with great results so I'm putting it on several more including my own this season. It is made by the same people that manufacture the water based paint Aquagard (which I have not used so no opinion on that). Can you get Pettit Ultima ECO in Canada? That would be a huge improvement over Trilux.

[IronwoodIsland]

Hi Chaps

Thanks again with your experience and thoughts on these paints. Al boats save the environment by using way less fuel - but we need proper bottom paint! Haven't seen Flexdel Armor up here yet but maybe West Marine will bring it in.

Once I finish our cabin build I'm onto a proper dock crane build (our present one is good maybe up to 2000 lbs and not quite up to a 3500 lb lift x adequate FoS ) and I'll just pressure wash off an epoxy or ablative coat every few months. Don't want to be washing copper paint off into the salt chuck.

Now if they just had some kind of paint that worked as well as those new white "ceramic" miracle non-stick polymer teflon replacement frying pans .... I wonder how they apply that stuff to aluminium pan bottoms.

GP

[Chaps]

Your other option would be to apply enough epoxy barrier coat to get to a 15-20 mil build then you can put on anything, even a high load copper paint. Now before the pitchforks come out and the riots start you need to know that the alloy commercial fish fleet as well as the metal mega-yachts have been doing precisely that for years. Care must be taken to avoid providing a connection to the hull from the paint such as a SS thru-hull or outboard mounts, etc. I've had copper paint on my LaConner since I got it and it has worked fine with no corrosion issues but my epoxy is on heavy. I'm going to go with non-copper Armor at some point this year when things slow down enough to compare its effectiveness to the copper on my own boat.

[IronwoodIsland]

Glad business is brisk Chaps.

Sounds like you have a hybrid Al-epoxy hull! Found a distributor that ships Flexdel Armor coat to Canada so I'm going to give that a try too. We are taking the Trilux off by sanding, exposing the multiple primacoat / epoxy phases of primer on the way down to metal, doing a Zn conversion coat and then epoxy barrier, then Flexdel blue (unless the lighter colours like grey work better with the Zn omide)?

The Ironwood runs so sweet without all the barnacles.

Cheers from up here.

[Aluminum Clone Owner]

Another vote for Petit Vivid.

[IronwoodIsland]

Thanks to the modern-day miracle of Fedex a gallon of Flexdel Armor arrived and as a result of the liberal offering of money to the right person became firmly attached to our Ironwood in the form of two coats of blue atop several coats of primacon and some kind of zinc conversion first coat. Apparently several days of scraping, acid wash and sanding were required to banish Trilux II and the attached barnacles from our little boat. The gallon provided 2 coats of coverage on our 19'+2' extension hull.

After a few weeks it's still looking good! Will keep folks posted on how it works out. Correction to my previous post: Flexdel Armor paint does not contain Zinc "omide", it has Zinc "Omadine" (trade name for Zinc Pyrithione = zinc-2-pyridinethiol-1-oxide), I gather that this is also used in E-paint (see http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/mi ... et_505.pdf). Strangely, this stuff is also used in dandruff shampoos ...

See photo for a picture of our freshly painted Ironwood. Note the dollar store style stainless cook pot proudly added as chimney rain preventer.

Just a week before haulout I bounced off a hidden deadhead while on plane, not a dent on the hull.

John at Ironwood boats made an absolutely perfect transom extension for us when we repowered a few years ago. That really improved the ride and seakeeping ability, the extra 2' of length reduced porpoising and improved tracking and planing under the heavy loads we haul to the cabin construction site. The extendable tow post is really handy to keep towlines up above the motor. When I get a bit of time I'll post pictures of the before and after and John's computer design work that made the extension work out so well.

[Chaps]

Bottom looks good.

So I take it that Flexdel Armor has been vetted and found acceptable to be used in Canada but the stores don't stock it so its a special order only?

The zinc omadine is a slime and soft growth deterrent, the paint also has econea for hard shell (barnacle) prevention. This biocide package can be found in other paints produced by all the bigger anti-foul companies but I've found Armor to be the best of the pack. Its also a very tough coating, seems to be almost as hard as modified epoxy paint. I was painting a boat with it about a week ago and got some on my arm which I didn't notice right away and it dried. Usually dry ablative bottom paint will come off my skin after a good scrub while I'm in the shower but not this stuff, stayed on all week!

[IronwoodIsland]

Given that it's EPA approved and copper free there was no problem getting it. I've never seen it stocked in Canada yet, but Canadian Tire sells other Aquaguard bottom paints. I think that Aquaguard and Flexdel are the same company. Just probably takes time for new products to work through the distribution systems. We have some flavours of E-paint here now, but on the whole quite a limited selection and no Petite Vivid.

Now to try and find a 3" x 6" x 1.5" Navalloy anode with embedded bolt on strip. PS I like what looks like a retractable sounder strut on the stern of your boat. That is a project I mean to add on next haul out.

[Chaps]

Yes, Flexdel makes Aquagard water based anti-foul paints (but I've never used them). My understanding of the rules up there is that paints with more than one biocide chemical are not approved for sale but perhaps that law has changed since most all the non-copper paints are dual biocide products.

Anodes, this is the one I put on most alloy boats, http://www.boatzincs.com/azhc-2.html (not navalloy, but mil-spec nonetheless)

I did that retractable mount in order to bury my side scan transducer deeper than a typical transom mount to get a clearer picture. We went through a long process here of locating old sunken boats and other large junk in our harbors to qualify for state funds to remove stuff and getting the ducer about 10" below the keel made it easier to identify targets of opportunity.

[Mrjerryj]

Sound like Petit Vivid or Flexdel Armor is way to go. I just purchased the 2008 Pacific v2025 Chaps was helping sell. She's been on a lift her whole life. In Beautiful shape. I'll be leaving her in all the time though up in San Juans. So need to paint her bottom.

Anyone have a yard recommendation in seattle that knows what they are doing painting aluminum hulls?

Thx, Jerry. (An alloy virgin)

[kmorin]

Mrjerryj,
I'd like to mention that Chaps has a full service bottom painting specialty company!! Might try to PM him here on the Forum to see if he could offer services? Blasting to coating, his facility is designed specifically to allow good access to boats' bottom by suspending the entire boat above the working floor.

I'm not sure of the actual locations, launches, trailering or other details but there are more than a few articles on the Forum showing his work for various other boats including well satisfied members' boats.

Just a suggestion,

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

[Chaps]

Thank you Kevin!

[timeo]

Jerry,

I have a V2025 that I bought this year and had Chaps paint, he did a great job. I also keep mine in the water year round on San Juan Island. Chaps is on Bainbridge so I towed it to San Juan via the Port Townsend ferry, to Whidbey, to the SJI ferry. What island will she be moored on?

Tim

[BCTony]

Hi Jerry,

I have just had Chaps do bottom paint on my boat last week viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4826&start=25. An excellent professional job I highly recommend Chaps to you.

BCTony.

[Mrjerryj]

Thanks all for the terrific recommendations. I've contacted chaps and seeing if I can arrange a bottom paint before I pick her up. The boat is located just a few blocks from his shop right now! Just need to figured out how to trailer it over.

We will be on Pearl Island. Can't wait to get her up there.

Thanks again to all the advice. This group seems like a great one. Glad I found you guys.

Thx , Jerry

[kmorin]

Chaps, you're welcome.

Mrjerryj, your new boat will be in the best hands you could find. ("No brag, just fact." - Walter Brennan)

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

[Chaps]

Sheesh, you guys are really laying it on thick . . . painting boat bottoms ain't rocket science, just a matter of finding someone dumb enough to want to do it . . .

[BCTony]

Sheesh, you guys are really laying it on thick . . . painting boat bottoms ain't rocket science, just a matter of finding someone dumb enough to want to do it . . .

Did Frank Sinatra ever say 'Sheesh ..... you're clapping too much'!