Props are not Safe.

[amfboats]

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/5141 ... p-accident

What do you all think of this story?

Maybe they should sue the boat salesman for selling the boat to incompetent boaters?

[goatram]

I wish I was on the jury.
It was a sad day in 2005. The operator and his parents are at fault. Lack of Supervision. Lawyers win again

[21ftcc]

Now it will just be another legal line in the sell of a boat and an added cost to decline and take full responsibility for.

[pjay9]

NO Doo-doo! Everything is UNSAFE if used with out thought and prudence. People have guns and shoot themselves while cleaning them is it the fault of the cleaning fluid or the rag or the hands covered with oil...Dumbass JUDGE! This pissed me OFF! Ahh! Needless to say! Capt PJ

[welder]

The bad part is , these people BREED and VOTE.

[peterbo3]

So is every motor vehicle, aeroplane, power saw, packet of corn chips, can of coke or bottle of beer on the planet. Even breathing is unsafe. Walking, swimming, RUNNING, the list is endless................
I am thinking that this will go to a higher appeals court. It is a stupid decision as any experienced boater will affirm. This is 100% operator error. I am glad that I am 64 & that most of my life has been free of this "not my fault, I need to sue somebody" mindset.
Come 1020 Sunday I am outta here.

[carpetman]

stupid is as stupid does

[StabicraftMarine]

This one just resurfaced too.

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/home/5142 ... gn-lawsuit

The guy bought it because it was big and looked cool and he has a right to judge the merits of the designers of the boat manufacturers that put money back into his economy?

Sad days.

Here in NZ there is a bit of a backlash against political correctness and an acceptability of stupidity. I really, really hope we have seen the end of this bullshit.

Tim.

[JETTYWOLF]

I believe that falls into the .............



Okay, who's FAULT was this?
Years ago a fishing guide or a guy taking people fishing.........(hate to think that a Guide was so lax) around here asked his clients/passenger(s) to pull up the boat while he was up on the bow, so it would be easier for him to retrieve a stuck anchor, or something. As he stood up on the bow the client/passenger-now driver, put the boat into gear and WAY to forward on the controls, the boat gunned forward. He fell off the bow and the the client drove the boat over him severing his legs.

Hmmmm...is it okay to sue yourself?

[Seefood Man]

"After last year’s verdict, Brunswick issued a statement saying they “stand behind our products, which are used safely and properly by boaters around the world.”


What Brunswick should have said is;

We stand behind our products, but we aren't stupid enough to swim behind them.

[Daddy'O]

"After last year’s verdict, Brunswick issued a statement saying they “stand behind our products, which are used safely and properly by boaters around the world.”


What Brunswick should have said is;

We stand behind our products, but we aren't stupid enough to swim behind them.

That's a good one!

Wayne

[rocky_taco]

In reading on this subject I stumbled across a couple of interesting articles and a web page that purposes to educate jurors of their rights. I found the articles got me pondering various law suits I've read about in the past.

http://fija.org/

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/emal1.1.1.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig12/doig1.1.1.html

[Polywave]

Props are NOT safe. They are UNSAFE.
Pointing out the fact that something else is unsafe also does not make props safe.

It is wrong for someone to provide people with products that can do great bodily harm to them without taking reasonable precautions to protect them. Prop gaurds are a reasonable precaution to take to protect boaters from props when accidents happen.

Are teenagers stupid? Yes. Do they make poor decisions? Yes. Should I just stand here and call them stupid while they're ripped open by a propeller because the boat driver made a poor decision? Give me a break.

[Daddy'O]

So you’re saying you agree with law suit & the outcome?

Wayne

[Polywave]

I agree with the outcome of the lawsuit.

I look at it this way. Say you have children, teenagers. And they come to my paintball business and ask me to rent them some paintball guns. I say sure, here's some ammo for that paint ball gun. And then I say to them, go on out in the arena and start shooting each other. But be carefull, don't shoot each other in the eyes cause it can blind someone.
So out they go, without eye protection, because after all, I told them to be careful and in my judgement, that's good enough. But you know, teenagers being young and naive, one of them ends up hitting your teenager in the eyes and causing your son or daughter to go blind.

Now, if you come to me all pissed off, and get in my face about being irresponsible and providing a means for this accident to happen, will you calm down when I explain to you that I warned them, so it's not my fault? Or how about I say to you "I stand behind my business, but I'm not stupid enough to shoot myself in the eyes with a paintball gun!". Would you just yuck it up and go home?

Some people aren't going to get this until it's one of their little brothers or sisters, or son or daughter, that's chewed up by a prop because they or someone they were with made a poor choice. Some won't get this at all.

[lchaber]

Perhaps you do not realize that even with a guard, someone can be injured by a propeller. You can only do so much to protect people, then personal responsibility comes into play. You can shield a prop until a person cannot get their little finger into it, but then it will not work for its intended purpose. I work as a maintenance machinist at a Japanese auto manufacturing plant in Kentucky. I can tell you for a fact that you cannot idiotproof anything. Even with the most concientious guarding, someone can get hurt.

[Daddy'O]

I agree with the outcome of the lawsuit.

I look at it this way. Say you have children, teenagers. And they come to my paintball business and ask me to rent them some paintball guns. I say sure, here's some ammo for that paint ball gun. And then I say to them, go on out in the arena and start shooting each other. But be carefull, don't shoot each other in the eyes cause it can blind someone.
So out they go, without eye protection, because after all, I told them to be careful and in my judgement, that's good enough. But you know, teenagers being young and naive, one of them ends up hitting your teenager in the eyes and causing your son or daughter to go blind.

Now, if you come to me all pissed off, and get in my face about being irresponsible and providing a means for this accident to happen, will you calm down when I explain to you that I warned them, so it's not my fault? Or how about I say to you "I stand behind my business, but I'm not stupid enough to shoot myself in the eyes with a paintball gun!". Would you just yuck it up and go home?

Some people aren't going to get this until it's one of their little brothers or sisters, or son or daughter, that's chewed up by a prop because they or someone they were with made a poor choice. Some won't get this at all.

OK, from your initial reply (which you edited) I sensed you did have an interest with the outcome.

You are adamant for manufacturers, whether they manufacture engine props or bowling balls, to manufacture the safest product possible and to be accountable for restitution if an accident should occur to a common sense challenged end user.

Please don’t misunderstand me as I am an advocate of all realms of safety. Many co-workers and friends call me the safety nerd. So I have no issues with manufacturers designing and incorporating as much safety as possible in consumer products. But hey, you can only design and incorporate so much safety into say a lawnmower or chainsaw.

Unfortunately accidents still happen, from people with hours of safety training and years of operating experience to people who are common sense challenged. It seems the later are always the ones doing the suing and winning. I believe this is the very thing most of the members responding to this thread have issues with. I’m sure everyone here has some empathy for the victim. But many (like me) are tired of hearing how some unbelievably common sense challenged people sue over the craziest things…...and win!

If I go swimming with alligators in the swamps of Louisiana and get my arm bit off. Is it really my fault? Or is it the state of Louisiana? I guess I could sue on the grounds that the state of Louisiana did not install safety mouth guards on their alligators. Think I would win?

I see your point, I hope you see mine.

Wayne

[welder]

Polywave, do you make it MANDATORY that ALL gamers wear eye protection or do you just tell them too ? If it were my arena and I caught ANYONE with out their PPE they would be stopped and asked to leave. I am all for SAFETY and my Job as a Lineman DEMANDS it or I DIE .


Wayne, I drive all the way to La. and Don and I are hitting the swamps in the AM @ 0700 and now your telling me the Gators don't have MUZZLES ....Guess I aint getting in the water But if I FALL in and get bit I'll sue the State for not having a sign every 50' that says "FALL IN AT YOUR OWN RISK"
Disclaimer: The above Wayne question is a JOKE.

Although I do fell sorry for the injured guy , the boat operator needs his BUTT kicked and I don't think it should have made it to ANY court room, PERIOD .

To bad we can't fix STUPID.

I really like how they finally got a THIRD JURY to do something for them , I guess being told NO TWICE just didn't work.

I'll stop here before I really put my foot in it.

[rocky_taco]

If I go swimming with alligators in the swamps of Louisiana and get my arm bit off. Is it really my fault? Or is it the state of Louisiana? I guess I could sue on the grounds that the state of Louisiana did not install safety mouth guards on their alligators. Think I would win?

Wayne

Is it really my fault?

The Alligator had previously established homestead rights to the swamp by living there and making improvements to suit its needs. When you went swimming in the alligator's home, you were trespassing without compensating the alligator and it had the right to defend its property. In this case, I think you were clearly the aggressor and thus it was your fault. The alligator would be in the right to sue you for any damages you might have caused walking through his swamp. I think the alligator may be able to prove that the blood from your arm drew in some predator fish that ate some of the alligator's food supply and that compensation is in order.

[Polywave]

Perhaps you do not realize that even with a guard, someone can be injured by a propeller. You can only do so much to protect people, then personal responsibility comes into play. You can shield a prop until a person cannot get their little finger into it, but then it will not work for its intended purpose. I work as a maintenance machinist at a Japanese auto manufacturing plant in Kentucky. I can tell you for a fact that you cannot idiotproof anything. Even with the most concientious guarding, someone can get hurt.

Ichaber this is a copout.
1. No one has said that with a guard propeller injuries are prevented, they are saying the injuries are GREATLY REDUCED.
2. No one is advocating that people shouldn't take personal responsibility while operating a boat with a propeller.
3. No one is advocating sheilding boat propellers to the point where they aren't functional any more.
4. The gaurd IS on the machine, isn't it? Are you advocating that it should be removed?
5. Everyone admits that operating a machine involves risk and accidents will happen when risk is involved. They're also advocating that risk mitigation measures be taken when they prove to be reasonable.

Daddy'O you're right. After thinking it over, I realized I DO have an interest in the outcome of the court case, otherwise I wouldn't have replied. So I retracted what I said and reposted.

1. I am NOT adamant for manufacturers and have never implied I was. But I am adamant about the concept that product designers should design their products to be safe, and they should re-design them when it's discovered they are harming others.
2. Calling those less intelligent than oneself common sense challenged is a thin disguise. It's still demeaning to them, and condescending. The fact is the vast majority of the boating accident's that occur directly involve young adults, and they are inexperienced not common sense challenged. Do you remember when you were young? I wish I could go back and rethink/redo plenty of decisions I made when I was a teenager.
3. I am glad to hear you're a safety nerd . I'm one too. I've been on the safety committee for the company I work for that had automated production equipment, maybe similar to the equipment Ichaber works on. Safety was a top priority for the CEO of this company and the injury rate was monitored. One woman on the committee didn't have time to devote to the committee, but she wanted to be perceived as a caring person so she joined. She was totally ineffective at reducing the injury rate and somewhat effective at increasing it with the can't idiot proof copout. I, on the other hand, am proud to point out I improved the personal safety of the production personel by insisting on implementing reasonable safety measures, including gaurds to keep people and machinery separated. BTW: a lawn mower has a safety gaurd. I wouldn't eliminate it just because the blade would eject the cut grass more efficiently. I see it as a reasonable safety device that reduces injuries.
4. I agree it's unfortunate accidents are going to happen no matter what. And when they do it shouldn't have to get to the point where courts and jurys are asked to resolve the issues. But I dissagree that law suits surrounding personal safety are frivolous. It's always worth it when people fight to make everyone safer, especially when it involves making children safer.
5. I do see your point.

rocky_taco:
Why does your quote show me as quoting something Wayne said?

[Seefood Man]

Polywave I can't tell from the pics, but do you run a prop or jet on your boat?

Do YOU have a prop guard on the main?
I have one on my kicker, but that is to keep the lines, not my clients, out of the prop.

[Polywave]

Polywave I can't tell from the pics, but do you run a prop or jet on your boat?

Do YOU have a prop guard on the main?
I have one on my kicker, but that is to keep the lines, not my clients, out of the prop.

It's apparent to me that you just want to play some kind of game. You said you can't tell me what kind of motor I have on my boat from the picture, yet you asked me if I have a prop gaurd on my main.

Fact is, I'm trying to have an adult discussion regarding boat props and personal safety. If you are just trying to be cute, well ok then you're cute. Now please go find the playground and play nicely with the other little kids.

[Seefood Man]

Polywave I can't tell from the pics, but do you run a prop or jet on your boat?

Do YOU have a prop guard on the main?
I have one on my kicker, but that is to keep the lines, not my clients, out of the prop.

It's apparent to me that you just want to play some kind of game. You said you can't tell me what kind of motor I have on my boat from the picture, yet you asked me if I have a prop gaurd on my main.

Fact is, I'm trying to have an adult discussion regarding boat props and personal safety. If you are just trying to be cute, well ok then you're cute. Now please go find the playground and play nicely with the other little kids.

No Game! I can't tell, just asking a question in an "adult" fashion. All the "game playing is for that "other" site.
No need to get your draws in a bunch. Just wanting to know if you run a prop guard on not. Sheese

[Polywave]

Ok then, I have a prop gaurd on my kicker as well. Not on my main. And I pulled my draws out of my butt.

Regarding my main and prop gaurds:

I was in a situation a few years ago where a family of three, an adult male & female and a teen female, dumped their rented canoe in the cutt (they rented it right there by the stadium). I was alone on my boat. They asked me to help them, so I allowed them to come aboard and took them to the dock.

I made them board my boat on my bow because I didn't want them near my un-gaurded prop. I couldn't shut my engine down, it was boat opening day and the boats in the cutt were crowded and this caused the water to be choppy (the reason they lost it in their canoe in the first place, had nothing to do with being common sense challenged).

They were scraped up pretty bad boarding across my bow because they had to porpoise in un-assisted while I kept my boat still using the engine. I wish I could have let them climb aboard my engine platform instead because it's at the waterline and I have a gateway through my transom.

Some people just lost a loved one out by Hat Island a few months ago in rough water. The boats that arrived seemed to get the survivors out of the water and likely none of them had prop gaurds. So yea, I did it and others are doing it. But a prop gaurd would make stern rescues ALOT safer. Especially when there is only one person on board the resuce vessel.

[Seefood Man]

All rescue scenarios are different. While not required by CG on my boat, I have a life-ring attached to a 50' bagged, floating rope. This way I can: throw, shut down and retrieve person to back swim platform. As I said, every situation is different.