Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

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dawgaholic
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Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#1

Post by dawgaholic »

What say you?

-Positive buoyancy pontoon stability for the Stabi vs. the flooded ballast design of Surtees?
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#2

Post by Gypseas »

Haven't been riding any but the ballast thingy caught my attention.
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#3

Post by dawgaholic »

I beg forgiveness for the sin of failing to link pics:

Surtees particulars

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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#4

Post by Chaps »

Got to go with that deep-V water ballasted hull of the Surtees. I would love to add that feature to my old La Conner. Been thinking about actually doing it, need to talk to a hull designer.
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#5

Post by dawgaholic »

I am intrigued by these two novel hull designs as they are indigenous solutions to the environment they must function in. I was totally blown away after reading that that Matt Watson took a 4m Stabicraft out blue water fishing some 30 km out in those perpetually disturbed seas and felt absolutely safe as he and his mate reeled them in!

Hopefully owners of both will pitch in and tell us the details and how they like their tinnies. The cockpits on both look plenty roomy and other than not caring for the sterns of the Surtees, I'm sure if you asked them to build you something different, they'd just ask for your deposit. :)
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#6

Post by Pelagic Boats »

Before i start i just want to make clear i have no relations with either company what so ever and have not been in a Surtees but have been in the AUS built equivalent, Bar crusher Boats (Same Hull) http://www.barcrusher.com.au/

Ok Before i had been on a Stabi i was told the ride was not as good as a Bar Crusher/Surtees and i thought to my self wow they must be bad because the Bar Crusher wasn't all the crash hot and probably one of the wettest boat i had been on. Just recently i have become friends with a guy that owns a 20' Stabi and we went for a fish just the other weekend and i must say the guys that say the Bar Crusher/Sureties is a better boat have no idea what they are talking about.
The Stabi really does live up to its name they are incredible at rest and to tell you the truth they are on a par for ride performance with the Bar Crusher/Sureties but a much dryer ride than the Bar Crusher/Sureties.
As for the General lay out both boats have there good and bad points, (im only going to list a few bad points as the good points are much like what you would find on any other boat).
The Stabi that i have been in felt quite small inside with very little fishing room for a 20' boat, the forward v birth was large enough to sleep in but i felt it was a bit of a waist as you wouldn't be doing that many over nighters in a boat of this size.
The Bar Crusher/Sureties dash is one of the worst i have seen and they all seem to be the same in each model, not very big and not a real lot of room to add extras if you require them down the track. im also not a big fan of uncovered alloy decking, it gets dam hot and reflects a lot of sun. I would love to see a stability test done a Bar Crusher/Sureties, one with the ballast and one with out because i really think its more of a marketing gimmick than anything i think they could achieve the same result by adding a little more beam below the water line, But hey i would loved to be proven wrong.

If i had to chose between the 2 (and thank good i don't) it would probably be the Stabi its a much better all round fishing platform.

Cheers Dan.
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#7

Post by dawgaholic »

Thanks for sharing PB, there is no substitute for first hand experience.

I happened upon the ausfish site and began reading and finally figured out that Surtees = Barcrusher but never read an account which truly investigated the efficacy of the ballast deal. The pontoon concept isn't new but incorporation of them into hull design as StabiCraft has done is/was and they took it to the next level.

You are another who has mentioned that the Stabi seemed confining in space available as I recall from pouring through the archives. Could explain the brand's difficulty in attracting a U.S. audience since elbow room is highly prized by us. For a pure fishing machine vs. fishing machine comparison though, it is all about the overall package and the experience. A more stable platform cannot be adequately valued imo and from fishing pontoons a lot the Stabi would seem to have the better of it there.

As far as ride, I'd like to see the Almar 24/55 hull take on all comers.
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#8

Post by Pelagic Boats »

Yes Cockpit area is also so a big deal breaker here in Aus, we know what we want in a boat and different brands suit different needs.
Price also plays a very big part and with the ways things are at the moment we are finding we are loosing a lot of sales to manufacturers such as the 2 mentioned here even know our boats are in a different level, I always ask people that are looking at a Pelagic what else they have looked at and if they have mention Bar Crusher or Surtees or the like I know its going to be pretty hard to sell one of our boats just on price alone. The biggest problem we find is the vessel length, we are finding production boats are measured differently and are a lot smaller than what is written on the side for instance the 610 Bar Crusher would fit inside our 5.8m Pelagic and the Bar Crusher is a lot cheaper so where fighting a loosing battle from the start.

So at the end of the day people are willing to compromise a few things if the price is right.
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#9

Post by StabicraftMarine »

Thanks PB. I appreciate what you said and you made some good, valid points. Cockpit vs. cabin, chine beam, lengths, local pricing... On lengths, we switched onto the AYBC method early last year. After looking around, it became apparent it was the most popular. I think a few other manufacturers are starting to follow. Pricing is tough, we sell at a fixed exchange rate meaning more stable prices for dealers and the market (also so means we win some years, loose others). I know not everyone does this and that could be a problem if exchange rates revert back to pre GFC numbers.

I'm impressed with how hard and fast Surtees have hit Aus. We have been there for over 16 years and in what feels like less than two they have become a household name. The 'history' between Bar Crusher and Surtees helps I suppose.

I wont say whats better and whats not but anyone can ask about our boats and I will answer in truth. Just remember Dawgaholic there is no perfect boat yet, only compromise.

Tim.
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#10

Post by dave »

StabicraftMarine wrote:

Just remember Dawgaholic there is no perfect boat yet, only compromise.

Tim.
What the main focus is for the boat is how well it will suit a person. The same boat could be a dream for one person and a nightmare for another.
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#11

Post by dawgaholic »

I wont say whats better and whats not but anyone can ask about our boats and I will answer in truth. Just remember Dawgaholic there is no perfect boat yet, only compromise.
Sorry that I worded that poorly as I didn't want to cause anyone to feel as if they were under siege. My bad. :skillet:

Small tank tops is what I'm looking at and there are 2011 Supercabs in the NW. I got to get up there so the scheming is well underway. :idea:
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#12

Post by Pelagic Boats »

StabicraftMarine wrote:Thanks PB. I appreciate what you said and you made some good, valid points. Cockpit vs. cabin, chine beam, lengths, local pricing... On lengths, we switched onto the AYBC method early last year. After looking around, it became apparent it was the most popular. I think a few other manufacturers are starting to follow. Pricing is tough, we sell at a fixed exchange rate meaning more stable prices for dealers and the market (also so means we win some years, loose others). I know not everyone does this and that could be a problem if exchange rates revert back to pre GFC numbers.

I'm impressed with how hard and fast Surtees have hit Aus. We have been there for over 16 years and in what feels like less than two they have become a household name. The 'history' between Bar Crusher and Surtees helps I suppose.

I wont say whats better and whats not but anyone can ask about our boats and I will answer in truth. Just remember Dawgaholic there is no perfect boat yet, only compromise.

Tim.

Hi Tim, Great to see someone like your self taking the time to forward your views, and i apologize if i sounded to come on a bit strong with my views.
Surtees and Bar Crusher have some of the best marketing i have seen from any boat manufacture, they seem to have a trademark or catchy name for parts that are standard on every aluminium boat and people really look at this, we get it all the time "do you have anything like the Ridgy Deck" yes we do its called a fully welded floor and 95% of plate alloy boats have it. The list goes on. I take my hat of to them for doing this it truly dose work to there advantage.

The AYBC is a tricky one we really don't want to go down this path but we may also be forced to do so just to stay competitive in the recreational market we are currently around 15k on top of a bar crusher that they call the same size but it is also pretty hard to compete against anything production built.
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#13

Post by Illgotoo »

A bit biased, no doubt, but I really like my Stabi-craft. It's only 15' but it handles chop up to 3' -- safe and dry. The sponsons tend to knock the spray down. I love the swishing sound of the spray getting sent off to the sides. Another plus is fishing stability and the boat always points downwind (like a compass needle and north) which makes it easy to control.

The downside is interior space is taken up by the sponsons. Also the boat is so bouyant it rides right on the surface of the water and can be bouncy in steep chop. A heavier boat with more deadrise would tent to cut through the wave whereas the Stabi-craft hull traces the shape of the wave without piercing it.

That said the Surtees looked pretty interesting. I have no experience with the boat. The hull in the video seemed to knock down spray really well.

-tom
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#14

Post by StabicraftMarine »

No siege feelings here Dawg, quite the opposite, I'm pleased you bought us up. I don't mind comparisons.

If you want siege, the NZ and Aus forums can be ruthless. Some of the 'appendage' swinging contests get far too personal and counterproductive.

PB, we moved to the AYBC for those reasons as much as standardizing. We were having the same paper comparisons which are too often won by marketers. Love the rigi deck - its even trademarked (We shouldn't complain, we trademarked Positive Buoyancy - Im sure all boats need that)

Your right on Dave. Horses for courses.

Dont forget guys, I'm still a person siting in an office like most of us right now. Its just that I also watch and learn for our company. I can take punishment and laugh it off and so should the company. Part of life.

Tim.
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For your nearest dealer...
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0800 478 224 (NZ)

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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#15

Post by dawgaholic »

No siege feelings here Dawg, quite the opposite, I'm pleased you bought us up. I don't mind comparisons.

If you want siege, the NZ and Aus forums can be ruthless. Some of the 'appendage' swinging contests get far too personal and counterproductive.
I've been there and done that, lots of folks full of beans doesn't even approach it. :rotfl:

Getting your opinions and those of others knowledgeable with different makes and brands is part of building ones own knowledge base.

*That just sounds...sterile. Apologies. Seeking input from users, their experiences, those of folks who earn their livings with their vessels, these are the things that are most difficult to process without a frame of reference. I've overseen a trucking operation for nearly 30 years now and have a sure sense of what has worked or not for us through the years. While nothing can sub for the ride itself and a full demo, I'm on the other side of the Continent from where the tinnies are. Lol!
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Re: Battle of the Kiwis: StabiCraft vs. Surtees

#16

Post by Yowie »

Sorry to bring up a dead topic but I feel something that might also play a part in people choosing between other boats over stabicraft is the warranty on the hulls. From the stabicraft website they only have a 3 year warranty while most others have 10 years. For the money you get 3 times more piece of mind on the hull welds.
Has stabi looked at increasing the warranty period?

On the other hand I checked out your new 2750 centre cab and it is absolutely amazing. Saw the one at Northside marine in Brisbane Australia.
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