Open Bows and Big Water

[Hooks-n-Spears]

Hey Guys,

I'm a commercial fisherman working two live catch boats out of Port Orford (22 and 26 ft) and I'm looking to upgrade. A buddy of mine pointed me to this site and I've been lurking here, mostly in the for sale section, for several months and I would really like to hear what you guys have to say about these open bow boats and their performance in big water.

The boats I have now are both closed up front and on those rare occasions when I'm caught out there having to return into big short spaced wind waves I just relax and take it easy. Down the back side, ease off the throttle and booshhh. Wave comes over the bow, covers the windshield and sometimes flows over the house some. Very little of the water ends up in the boat because the closed bow sluffs it all off. Piece of cake.

Looking at the Pacific boats and this new Bennett that showed up, I find myself thinking how great it would be to be able to fish all four corners of the boat. I know they're wet decks with big scuppers and all but I really don't want to have to hold my breath and wonder what's going to happen if the boat is swamped by one of these big waves and then five seconds later takes another and then another.

Who's been there?

[welder]

I have yet to stuff the bow in my Pacific23 but there were a few times that a Pilot house would have been reel nice.
What are you want to upgrade too ? 28'/30' or just a new boat ?

[goatram]

A true self bailing deck with good scuppers are needed. Pacific Makes such an animal. The Cabin set in the center of the boat with true walkaround/fisharound with a self bailing deck and Fishholds. Costs less than the Coldwater which I would love to own. The Factories for both manufactures are back to back in the same Building in Maryesville Wa Exit 199. Either or will custom build what you want. Coldwater sells commercial Fishing boats and know what it it takes. Russ or Bruce would be glad to help.

I enclosed my Northriver's bow two years ago and I have stuffed the bow a few times already Green Water on the wind screen Sucks

[Chaps]

IMO one of the reasons for stuffing the bow on a lot of boats is the additional weight a forward cabin brings to the party. Especially when you load up the bunks with gear and stuff. If you want protection but desire the ability to work the entire perimeter you end up with something like mine or the pilothouse Pacifics for instance. Any of the custom builders will give you a walk around house, however. Its a simpler boat to build too.

[BroadCove]

I've got a 26' Pacific center console with a hard top. I've been out in closely spaced (basically stacked) 6'-9' foot swells in the Gulf of Maine. One of those days when the weather went from okay to bad very quickly and wasn't forecast. I don't think I ever truly stuffed the bow, but water was coming over the hard top on nearly every wave. It was a very uncomfortable ride - one of my speaker brackets sheared off from the pounding/vibration - but I never felt unsafe, and the water from each wave cleared the deck as quickly as it came in. As was said earlier, I think the fact that I don't have much weight forward, combined with the reserve bouancy that comes with Pacific's high freeboard, makes it less likely that I'll stuff the bow.

[AlloyToy]

I have a 23' Pacific.......roughest day I have been out in was the day I caught this 10-31-2009

FAC 17 mile ride out at 5:00 am lines in and then it happened at once a hookup and the wind kicked. The wind gusted 25 knots steady against the tide White knuckle ride in, got our butts pounded with sheets of water coming over the bow and smashing on the windshield, and hardtop.......

The ride in was all about boat handeling skills. We threw the inflateable vests on, secured all the gear with safety lines and gave it out best....

Never felt so good to hit the dock Water in and water out wit those oversize scuppers Pacific uses

[Gundog]

Live catch fishery Deleted my response Mom say if you can't say something nice.

[pjay9]

It is the size of the scuppers...that is why I increased the hole size on my Raider...I was on the Columbia seaward of Astoria and the wind came up in the afternoon as always the waves got up and it was a wet ride back to Illwaco, but the open bow took loads of water and out it went...size makes the difference. Capt PJ

[akrdkill]

check out mavrik marines open transom boat http://mavrikmarine.com/public/uploads/ ... 0boats.pdf

[Sculpin]

check out mavrik marines open transom boat http://mavrikmarine.com/public/uploads/ ... 0boats.pdf

Wow nice boat. Looks like a Pacific on steroids!!! I like the upswept bow. Thanks for posting that.

[akrdkill]

saw one down in Laconner on a trailer, looked like a great boat, i think you can get what you want on these too.....Hard Drive Marine's putting out some nice boats too.

[kmorin]

Hooks-n-Spears,
discussing hull shape AND flush deck versus forw'd cabin all in one go is pretty hard to reach much conclusion! First, if the butt lines AND the plan views of the chines and sheers aren't compared in the same scale, then there is no possibility of a real discussion; we'll just tell each other about the day we were out in a lump and were dry or wet?

For example, I built an open 25' that we used to jump the 60' and 80' rollers in the Gulf of Alaska (properly lubricated having spliced the main brace continually running out to the Gulf to find something to jump) and we were as dry as we left the dock.

On the other hand I've had the same skiff in a Cook Inlet blow (South-Southwest with an ebb tide and short break) with a little 5' break running and had to 'keep the pumps running'. So sea state and wave conditions also make for differing hull performances.

The "open or covered bow" question is not the real question as I see it. The real question is the 'spoon' of the design. Pacific's are a beautiful skiff but because of the minimal spoon (all in buttock line rake little or no flam) they're wet in a tall short seaway. In rollers they're probably fine but in short steep head sea they're wet; I've run near one for ten minutes and while we were dry they were shipping wash run-up and spray the entire time. (no spray rails and little flam and therefore minimal spoon)

Spoon is the bowl of the bow where flam and butt line rake combine to make a full bow that lifts the bow (pitches by the bow) over the swell and deflects the water outward to keep the skiff dry. But if you stuff the bow into the back of a green one (!) only covered skiffs will shed that water.

So the hull form has to be looked at closely or you're not going to compare "anything". In my estimation, if you ask - will a covered Pacific or Workboats or Wolf or Specmar ship water compared to their same LOA open... now you're going to be able to get some comparison. Without the hull forms being compared or the same from the same builder and lines, your original inquiry must return some undefined responses. I don't imagine we're going to get a full set of lines from all the builder's being compared....(?) therefore I'd say that the only way to make this comparison is to compare two models from the same shop.

Without knowing the shapes being compared? what's to compare? An open skiff with lots of spoon will lift over all waves better than a covered skiff with plumb sides, no rails or chine flats and little or now sheer railing. But that's a comparison of the hull shape not the open versus cabin/decked skiff in the question.

If we ask does a Dodge, a Gov'mnt Motors or a Ford pick up carry more? first thing that comes up is---- we'd have to ask what model, what engine and what suspension.... to get something to compare. We can't compare the compact Ford to the Turbo Diesel Double Cab 1 ton Dodge .... So too, I think you have limit the discussion of open versus covered foredeck to the same hull, from the same builder.

Just my take
Cheers,
Kevin Morin

[JETTYWOLF]

I have no idea what kinda commercial fishing ya'll are doing up there and what "live catch" means.......
I'd take a guess that you need huge fish wells, plumbed for keeping fish alive????

Our fisheries down here in Florida are like apples and oranges compared to yours.

I've never ever felt un-safe, or I've never had a customer say they felt unsafe fishing in my 26' Pacific center console.

I've had charter customers get sick and want to go find "Indiana water" (aka: a Farm pond) but if I had the need for a "roof" over my head, I'd go with a small "walk-around" on a big boat. Just as you said, So much more versatile.

See CHAPS boat?? Talk about being able to "fish the bow"......with no now deck even you're right up there.

And Pacific loves to make anything you want and can imagine, at a fair price, quality, seaworthy, and design.

IF I CAN OWN ONE (believe me) ANYONE CAN!

boat-at-dock.gif (183.67 KiB) Viewed 6554 times

[AlloyToy]

Nice dock shot

[JETTYWOLF]

check out mavrik marines open transom boat http://mavrikmarine.com/public/uploads/ ... 0boats.pdf

Wow nice boat. Looks like a Pacific on steroids!!! I like the upswept bow. Thanks for posting that.

SCULP.

WHAT THE HELL ARE YA DOING TO ME

HOLY SHET, NOW THAT'S GOT ME YEARNING. AND I SWORE I'D NEVER WANT TO OR NEED TO LOOK CLOSELY AT ANOTHER BOAT, BUT THAT ONE IS VERY INTRIGUING! HAVE YOU BEEN HIDING THESE BOATS IN YOUR HAT OR WHAT?

THAT SIDE SMALL CONSOLE AND LOOK AT THAT FISHING ROOM! I'D HAVE THEM WELD SOME BENCH SEATING IN THAT BOAT AND CLOSE IN THAT TRANSOM AND CALL ME CAPT DAVES PARTY BOAT EXTRAVAGANZA!

NOW THAT BOAT HAS THE STYLE OF SIDE RAILS I'D LOVE,LOVE,LOVE TO HAVE ON MY BOAT.

WHO WANT TO COME ON DOWN HERE AND EARN SOME SERIOUSLY FREE FISHING TRIPS AND WELD THOSE ON MY BOAT SIDES???????? JUS' LIKE THOSE