The real world

General boating discussion
DwayneJ
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:30 pm
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The real world

#1

Post by DwayneJ »

Some of the quality work performed by a Portland electronics marine company. What you are seeing is after their one attempt to remediate and did not return calls following. Paid $$ for a local company to remediate.

What I learned is if a company claims NMEA, call NMEA to find out what their level is. There are companies that only have paid membership to NMEA and nothing more.

Here's a list of NMEA "Master Dealers" who are defined as:

To qualify, dealerships must have at least one Certified Marine Electronics Technician (CMET) on staff and meet requirements for technical education and proper use of specific test equipment. A point system based on technical courses that are completed successfully is used to determine a dealership’s eligibility.

http://www.nmea.org/content/nmea_mdeale ... aster_.asp

Here's the list of regular dealers:

A NMEA dealer is "one dot" more than a mass marine retail store and "one dot less than" a Master Dealer... If that means anything at all.

http://www.nmea.org/Assets/nmea%20how%2 ... 0table.pdf

http://www.marineelectronicsjournal.com ... r_list.cgi

Here's NMEA: http://www.nmea.org and just to be clear, NMEA was very helpful when I called to discuss the issues I experienced but little they could do. I'm hopeful some of NMEA's courses cover galvanic corrosion and Al hulls.

PM me if you would like more pictures... My favorites are the +12V wiring which was crimped so badly, wires were exposed and the Al shavings all throughout the installation they did not take the time to remove.

A big thanks to http://www.the-boatyard.com who filled the alloy and resprayed the problem areas.... At my expense.

Dwayne

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Leaked from day one as install was incorrect. One attempt at remediation. This is several months after remediation and 7 months after original install.

Image

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Same as light and bracket. Galvanic corrosion around antenna mount.

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Last edited by DwayneJ on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
mojomizer
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Re: The real world

#2

Post by mojomizer »

Sorry to read that Dwayne in this world and economy there is no need for poor workmanship. Alot of marine electronics mnea or not.......... does not understand the nuances of Aluminum Boats. No excused for poor crimps or leaving work area a mess.
Mark
2325 WA PACIFICSKIFF
DwayneJ
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:30 pm
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Re: The real world

#3

Post by DwayneJ »

Sorry... Had to share - I saved these souvenirs which were removed from my boat following remediation...

1. Both connectors punched through exposing +12V
2. Wires burnt on one side due to liberal use of heat gun.
3. The red wire was not sealed at all.
4. The fuse "nicely" labeled "GO LIGHT" by the installer. PM me and I will quite happily share the invoice of the company I purchased this from and the same company who installed it.

Image

Dwayne
kmorin
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Mounting hardware

#4

Post by kmorin »

DwayneJ,
lots of different standards for marine wiring out there not all of them as long lasting and reliable as others. I would say that any wiring termination like crimps should be shrink wrapped using the glue lined type shrink tubing, but that is not the case with everyone. Also if you don't use the splice pieces/butt crimp connectors with their own manufacture's install tooling then the UL label/listing/test rating is lost, and the connection will usually break, leak and or ruin the insulation of the sleeves. Not a very good bit of advertising for the installer.

http://www.sealingscrews.com/ here is a link to a type of screw/bolt that will help to seal surface mount problems.

I'd suggest to anyone that was doing install work with bolts or even screws they consider buying a few feet of nylon, PEX or Tygon (tm) tubing and make up kits of fasteners. If you will be working with 1/4x20 machine screws then some 1/4" ID plastic tube cut to act as bushings inside SS fastener holes will avoid the chalky residue from the corrosion shown in your photos. Yes; it takes more time to overdrill all the holes and put in the bushings; is more effort to put a five or six piece fastener group instead of two: but, by sealing the heads and nuts of fasteners and bushing the drilled holes with a dielectric bushing of plastic you'll reduce the effect of water inside a mechanically fastened mount.

I also use a product called TefGel http://www.tefgel.com/contain.php?param=tefgel_infor that helps keep the water out AND helps to isolate threads of galvanically different metals. I find this helps with SS bolts tapped into aluminum welded to the boat.

As to the under paint corrosion shown at the base edge of your light fixture (?) I've seen this many times. The screw pierced the paint film and was not sealed. Therefore water got under the paint layer at the edges of the drilled hole and bare aluminum with water and SS made a tiny galvanic cell that could spread sideways because the water became acidic.

The chalk is a residue of more or less 'expanded' aluminum oxide paste -that has dried. But when wet, this stuff lifts the paint film and it reacts along the edges of the screw hole and then expands, as you show in the picture under the paint. The thin film or very small area of the water penetration allows the corrosion to 'grow' or expand since the water is becoming acid in ph as a result of the original 'battery cell' where it is robbed of oxygen by the reaction. Then the reaction continues since the remaining few drops of water are now (after contact with the galvanic reaction) acidic and they work to take more and more oxygen from the aluminum oxide film on the parent metal.

This type of cell continues to expand since the aluminum cannot get enough oxygen to permanently form its protective oxide film as there is a constant source of acid-forming electrical exchange at the site of the SS bolt or screw. This is why a sealing O ring on fasteners, with a plastic bushing as a dielectric isolator and finally some 'goop' to displace water penetration- all add up to better installations than the type you illustrate.

I'm not saying that everyone will agree to take those steps, but they are the 'right' way to make installations of they type you show.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
kmorin
welderbob
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Re: The real world

#5

Post by welderbob »

Don't feel bad,your not the only one. I have a story about a a major metal supplier that send out inferior aluminum,scribing plates wrong, and not supplying the drops from the cutting files. I'm giving them a few more days to make it right.
Stay tuned.

Welderbob
DwayneJ
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Joined: Tue Jul 21, 2009 11:30 pm
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Re: The real world

#6

Post by DwayneJ »

The two containers of tefgel I purchased and provided to the installer went unused - No clue about galvanic corrosion. Additionally, incorrect installation of the golight as confirmed by the company who makes it.

Dwayne
mojomizer
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Re: The real world

#7

Post by mojomizer »

Dwayne do not feel bad it happens all the time............... Anyone remember the buzz about the new age looking aluminum LCS-2 USS Independence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Independence_(LCS-2)

Well :shocked: ................ http://www.paintsquare.com/news/?fuseac ... ew&id=5790

Geeze even the article is poorly written and researched......... Having a steel hull guy talking about how aluminum rusts faster than steel :rotfl:

Finger pointing begins......... Austal claiming some bean counter slashing cost deleted the "Cathodic Protection System" and that the Navy was not diligent in maintenance.

What major naval ship builder would allow that to be eliminated from it's build??????? or insinuate the Navy does not maintain her fleet or have the expertise in Cathodic protection systems.
Mark
2325 WA PACIFICSKIFF
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