Greetings from Oneida Lake, NY

[Wantry]

Hi all. I'm new here and thought I'd internet-troduce myself before I start lurking and asking questions.

Matt Snyder from Oneida Lake, NY. Also frequently found across the Great Lakes, Long Island Sound, Pt. Judith Pond, Chesapeake Bay and tribs, Finger Lakes, Pamlico Sound and anywhere else the diver ducks may fly and fish may bite within a day's drive of home. If you can't do it with a tin boat, I don't wanna go!

Our stock in trade, is carrying two to five people and a big load of dogs and decoys ...



cont...

[Wantry]

... in and out of very skinny, unimproved (or nonexistent) launches ...



Cont …

[Wantry]

... break a few miles of ice ...


And/or
... run several miles across inshore waters ...
(usually too rough to take this picture)

Cont…

[Wantry]

... and beach the boats under power on gravel and rocks where we set up (or when fishing, fire up the kicker and troll our way to dinner). Then, hopefully, we turn around and haul some back with us. That's my life, and my boat's, about 100 days a year.

Between me, dad, and other family and friends we've been using and abusing Lund Alaskans and variants since about 1980. There are 4-5 of them in the family fleet at any given time because they work extremely well for what we do, especially since light weight is an important consideration for our style of duck hunting. If you look close at the cockpit layout of Jack Winninghoff's BWDB #1 you'll that it looks just like an early-90s Lund Alaskan blown up to 120% scale. That's because dad and BWDB client #1, a close friend, conspired for years on the brief for that boat to maximize its ducking utility before it was given to Jack Winninghoff to design.

For several years I've been studying boat design and construction to build a better lay-person's understanding.

cont ...

[Wantry]

My son is now getting old enough to hunt and fish everyday that I do ...



so my Alaskan won't be big enough for long, and it won't last forever. Time to upgrade soon to my first welded boat. I've got some crude drawings and have researched some prospective builders for a 20' by 7.5 o/b powered boat to be built sometime during calendar 2013. Initial considerations are relatively low freeboard, light weight, shallow draft, large capacity (weight + volume) and just enough deadrise forward and astern to fish more comfortably than what I have now and get me and my boy and crew home safely. A "little" boat by many standards, because it needs to be small enough that I can launch in ice and beach/float it single-handed; but still large enough that I can carry a bunch of hunters and gear when needed.

I'll post more of the drawings, photos on the build, etc. as time goes by and until then I look forward to sharing in (and hopefully contributing to) the collective knowledge here.

[Sabs28]

Welcome to the Forum Matt. Those are some cool pictures you have there, Any more??? I run a 17' Lund Explorer, 90HP Merc 4 Stroke. It works good for shallow water. Has a 40LB Minn Kota on the bow. Tinnie & Proud...

[welder]

Matt, WELCOME to AAB and what a GREAT 1st post, you will fit right in here.
Your son already has some guns on him .

[pjay9]

Nice post and welcome...tell us more! PJ

[wetwhopper]

What do you guys feed your kids up there? Your boy looks like he can bench press a whale shark Welcome!!!

[mojomizer]

I am sure doing a lot of outdoors stuff contribute to kids health..... Includes eating wild game.

Too cool seeing rod in one hand and a netted Walleye in the other........ Nice

I like the portability and economy of the "Heavy Gauged" Alloy Boats such as the Lund type crafts as well as Jon boats. I feel there is not enough discussions from our Heavy Gauged Alloy Brothers........ That is a lot of refurbish, modifying, hunting and fishing going on.

Walleye fishing seems to be a lot of fun and a very popular sweet water fish. Put a jig in my hand and I am in heaven.

A friend out here in Southern California swears he is seeing Sea Ducks out here.... (Black Surf Scooters) I do not think they would taste very good???? Kill it you eat it???

So welcome to AAB and Heavy Gauged Alloy type boat discussions are needed and welcomed........ You too Sabs. Detailed pictures and ha ha I get this type of gas mileage. Heavy Gauged Alloy Boats belong on AAB too

[Wantry]

We like to dress our kids in funny hats and force them go fishing and duck hunting. Seems to work out pretty well. He's 6 ... been going with us in the duck boat for 3 years, and he got it together enough this year to earn his first opening-day invite on Saturday. He and I and the Mrs. eat pretty much everything the dog brings to hand -- so we try not to knock down the ones that don't taste so good. I don't fish as hard as I hunt but I do love to catch walleyes and perch, and also take the boat down to the ocean to chase stripers and blues every so often. The fish in that shot is a chain pickerel (which ate his walleye bait & almost wore out that little 5' rod ... that one went back because I didn't feel like filleting out all the little bones!).

The design parameters for this upcoming boat are still coming together but in general I'm looking for a boat that does the things a 20' Alaskan will, but with a better cockpit layout and better durability. Light weight is an important consideration -- hull needs to weigh in at less than 1100-1200 lb. but still be strong enough to withstand ice breaking, frequent grounding, heavy pounding in high-frequency waves, etc.

There've been some past conversations with Jack Winninghoff and Metalcraft about a boat like this but neither was inclined to build a boat as simple, light, and affordable as what I have in mind. AAD seems to have a better handle on this style of boat, but I have no first-hand experience with them. I am going to get together a complete written brief with concept drawings before I select a builder and if y'all have other ideas for who has expertise, I'm listening. Thanks for the welcome!

[MacCTD]

Why does it need to be so light? I would think a boat that size made from at least 3/16th with a flat floor is going to be heavier than what you are looking for. Is self bailing a requirement? Pacific 2025 or 1925 has a great layout but is about twice as heavy as you are looking for.

[Wantry]

Two reasons for the light weight.

One is the need to be able to move the boat around by hand when it's hard aground. For example if I beach (to stop it bobbing up and down at anchor and thus flaring ducks), or when the tide goes out as we hunt, or when we launch the boat on top of ice and push it across the ice by hand to get to open water ... in all such situations I desire a hull that is light enough to move by hand. In my experience the upper limit is about 1200 lb. hull weight, and 1,000 lb is better. A 20 Alaskan's dry hull weight is about 1100 lb and we can drag one of those, loaded, a short distance across dry land given the right people and tools.

The other is that we frequently trail our boats off road (sometimes way off road) to launch where there's no launch ... over rocks, over ice, over the beach, over a seawall every once in a while. With 4 WD, all terrain tires, a good roller trailer and a heavy duty manual winch spooled up with Spectra, I can get a 1200 lb hull in the water and back on the trailer just about anywhere, by myself if need be. My buddies with the Winninghoff (which weighs about the same as the Pacific) can't go any of those places, unless they get a monster truck and a backhoe.

3/16 is not an absolute requirement. 1/8 with a solid keel and sufficient bracing should get the job done. The boat I have now is only .100 on the bottom and while it's not pretty under there, i've never holed it. Yet.

Self bailing is definitely not a requirement. It would be nice but light weight and cockpit capacity are much more important.

[mojomizer]

Ahh.......... Chain Pickeral should have noticed the motling was not from the nets shadow. From all the outdoor life magazines I read as a kid at the barber shop. I should have known better Forgive this So Cal native

Heavy Gauged boats have their purpose I remember a aluminum river jetboat thread, there was a application of a bottom type paint that was super scratch resistant and very slick for sliding over rocks. I could only imagine how slick it would be for ice.

Alot of Duck guys on here. Could you post some pictures of the types of boats that are used in your region????

[MacCTD]

What about a welded jon boat? Pretty reasonable priced, similar capacities as the 20' Alaskan, you can customize the seating to what suits the use.
http://www.crestliner.com/2070_retriever_jon

[Wantry]

The two styles in heaviest use on my home lake are the big jon boats and Lunds/old starcrafts/crestliners or other riveted V hulls. On the bigger waters we hunt, more of the same. There are a couple Metalcrafts and one Winninghoff running around but they have their limitations at the launch site and in shallow water.

I don't have anything against people who own jon boats, but that style's not for me. I don't like to run them or even ride in them, unless it's a 12' that we throw in the back of the truck (or across the gunwales of a big boat) to poke around in the swamp. Even the older 18 Alaskans and SS-18s pound less, ride drier and will safely handle larger seas (especially in a significant following or quartering sea) than any big jon I've ever been aboard, including the so-called "Deep V" 2072's and 2096's with 12* deadrise astern. The Alaskan also draws less with a heavy load aboard ... I guess because it of its smaller deadrise and how weight and displacement are distributed across the hull.

Whatever I wind up building will have a warped hull or similar that will combine a wide, nearly flat (less than 10*) transom deadrise with pronounced deadrise forward.

That hard-shelled bottom paint is very interesting to me. Anyone here have experience with it? How about in a saltwater environment (only about 20% of my use but still a consideration)?

[mojomizer]

I believe some jet boat people and our Australian and New Zealand friends have the most experience with the bottom coating.

Have you checked out Alweld Boats................. Google them.

[Wantry]

I have -- they're all jon boats, aren't they?

[mojomizer]

http://www.alweld.com/escort_bay_boat.html

They also do custom builds.

I like the old Valco Bayrunners out here in Southern California Another company bought out

http://www.klamathboats.com/htmlSite/

I can only attest to the Older Valco. The Gunwale(gunnel) are strong as a ice breaker I do not know??????

On all these types of boats make sure you get all aluminum transom. Some use wood on the transom. Wood has caused poutice corrosion. If you buy used please consider this in your inspection.

Remember there is alot of New and Used Alloy out there. We need more Heavy Gauged Aluminum discussions.

[welderbob]

Have you talked to Bill Lincoln at Response Marine. He designs our boats, maybe there is something close to what your looking for hull wise. I'm not the biggest fan of a 1/8" bottom, but could do something like .190 5086 bottom and .125 5086 sides. Maybe use a little smaller frame just a little closer?
Of course you could start from scratch with a hull design its all about the final price. I'm a couple of hours away on Long Island. Send me a PM or give me a call in the shop.

Bass have started to run here. Off to Fire Island inlet for the evening.

Welderbob
Sound Marine
631-567-2996

[Wantry]

Bob I haven't talked to Bill, but I'm going to talk to him and to you too. This is next year's project, right now I'm busy wearing out what's left of my current boat, and in the meantime I'm going to learn as much as I can.

No bass at least not your kind, but the ducks are flying here, and the pheasants too (not that the latter have too much to do with the boats). Next up will be fall walleyes, Lake Ontario ducks, more Oneida ducks, Finger Lakes ducks, Maryland ducks, and NY geese, then a new retriever puppy. Then walleye season opens again.