More electrolysis

[dave]

I have a 16 ft Alumaweld. I keep it on a trailer. I use it mostly in salt water. I flush the motor and wash down the boat and trailer everytime I use it. Just recently I found a hole in the hull up by the bilge output. A few days later I noticed three more small holes in the hull just above the chine. I have been getting water in the bilge the last few times I took it out, and I thought it was just a loose drain plug. It isn't that. I am supposed to have a lifetime warranty on the hull. Alumaweld says it dosen't cover electrolysis. They said to check that all electronics were grounded to a dedicated ground and not the hull. They are grounded properly. The last time I talked to them they asked who installed the motor. It is a 4 stroke 60HP Yamaha. He said he would check on the motor installation and if Yamaha was having and elelctrical problems. Now everytime I call he is on the phone or in a meeting.

Anybody else with an Alumaweld having problems? This is an expensive boat I bought new. I had to travel 1500 miles to pick it up. Now it seems as if they are just ignoring my problem. I also bought their Rogue trailer with torsion bar suspension and LED lights. Now the suspension barely works. They also sold me the trailer with tires that were 4 years old. I got a blister in one tire and wound up replacing all three tires with new ones.

Anyone have a suggestion as to what else to look for?

[goatram]

Look at all of your wiring. Butt Splices Sealed properly? No corrosion and are you using the heat shrink with the glue in it? Your Bilge pump is showing any green on the wires? Is it a Rule? if not; replace it and the auto switch. Your issue is in the wiring. Drill the pin holes and tig them up. Warranties are worth the paper that they are printed on. (Fine Print gets you every time) Salt water disclaimers are included in almost all. Fix the issues and press on.

[capesteve]

Can you post some pictures of these holes?

[dave]

Can you post some pictures of these holes?

Send me your email address so I can send you the pictures.

[JETTYWOLF]

Builders got yer money....and maybe if the welds cracked and half the boat fell off, they may care. You're on your own. Certainly sounds like as I was once told, "STRAY" voltage........from Pacific to Honda to Teleflex. They all use that "buzz word" to send you on your way to fend for yourself.

Torsion bar trailers: The "torsion" parts can be changed out. Expensive labor, but I heard it can be done. The whole system is riding on twisting rubber bars inside a tube.
Or sell the trailer, and since you're in their area. Go see Rolls-Axle. No Rubber BS, no leaf springs, but rather a non-corrosive aluminum swiveling patented spring system, that works great. With zero maintenance.

Kmorin should be along. He'll tell ya how to treat the area, drill and weld it and RIP OUT whatever you have in there now and re-do it.

Or go as I do....pumpless.

[kmorin]

dave, stray current is almost always a term used for a battery driven DC electron flow NOT for galvanic driven current flow but sometimes the results are hard to tell apart. If there are two metals, or even aluminum and some neoprene rubber compounds together- and wet- then I'd generally call that a galvanic cell. If there is a battery on the boat, (which is a specialized galvanic cell; sealed to gain DC potential [voltage] from the reversible corrosion reaction inside) and I'll take it your outboard is not a rope start(?) then stray current refers to some electrical load that does not follow a DC RETURN path.

(I don't use the "G-word" [ground] since its confusing to the discussion more often than not easier to avoid than rely upon.)

So a motor, light, sensor of some type has a DC + connection; the word stray applied to that current is when it goes back to Zero Potential, like the water or the battery "outside the planned wire path". Therefore its 'straying from the correct path' to the DC Neg.

If you have poor quality bilge pump motors they can have a DC path to case and if the pump's shaft is metal the case can use the water inside the pump hose as a less resistant path to Zero Potential/DC neg. If, as goatram mentioned, you have butt-splice connectors to the DC pump, they don't have to get wet to the point of short circuiting to "drain" or allow some small amount of current flow to the hull from the charged pump- to cause stray current corrosion.

I worked on a boat with tanks built into the work deck where the top of the tank was the deck of the boat. The builder had installed top mounted (deck mounted) fuel level gauges and they were not turned on or off by the battery disconnect switch but had been wired 'around' that disconnect or directly to the battery positive post. When it rained the boat was dissolving/corroding/electrolysis migration into the harbor from the battery's hot terminal being allowed a conductive path to the hull and therefore into the water. This was truly stray current, and it stopped when the entire fuel sender was disconnected.

Any place a DC load is located there is potential for stray current corrosion source, but the site of the corrosion does not necessarily happen where the DC current enters the hull, it's where the DC current exits that the metal is eroded. If wires are not insulated well, connections not sealed or the hull is not BONDED to the DC neg of the battery IN ONE PLACE, all these wiring errors can contribute to the DC stray current of aluminum.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin

[dave]

goatram, the bilge pump is a Rule. Alumaweld has been no help at all. They sent me a short infomercial from Yamaha that had nothing to do with my problem when I asked if any other boats with Yamahas were having similar problems. They finally checked and told me the motor was installed at Alumaweld. They told me to take the boat to the Yamaha dealer to have it checked. I had allready done that. No problems found.

The dealer says the only thing he can think of to do is install some kind of heavy duty ground. I will be doing that after I can find time to have the holes properly taken care of.

[THEMOORINGMAN]

This is why my Edwing sleeps on land and I rewired it 100% from bow to stern!!!!! Sorry you're having issues, have them weld up the spots and be done with it.

[G17]

Dave,

So sorry to read about the troubles with the new Alumaweld boat. That must be extremely frustrating, especially with the lack of help from the manufacturer. I wonder if other Alumaweld owners have had similar experiences with post-sales or warranty issues?

Regards,

G17

[Katoh]

Its a real bugger when you find these little holes appearing, I would suggest you check all your wiring, lights and all even your radio and aerial, sounds like somewhere down the track you have an electrical leak of some sort. Put in a battery isolation switch as well so when the boat is not in use you can switch the power off. I would just chase the cables to see if you have a short to the hull somewhere, you can use a meter to find the short easily.
I have some good literature on boat wiring and principles, if your interested I could send you a copy.

The other thing without seeing where and what holes look like, is there foam\timber or some other sort of substance against the hull in these areas, it may also be from moisture held on a Al for long periods that eventually becomes acidic as it looses its oxygen content.
good luck!

[dave]

Well I finally had the holes welded and put two zinks on the hull. I haven't had time to take it out yet. Hopefully all the holes are filled. We just had a house built, so the next time I take her out, I will be taking her to the new house. We have a 3 car garage, so she will have her own spot inside.

[Katoh]

Dave, hope all your problems are solved, did you find anything wrong with your electrical system? Did you eventually get to bottom of your problem causing the holes?

[capesteve]

Did the hull not have zincs before?

[dave]

Hopefully everything is solved. The electrical system was gone over by the Yamaha mechanic who has serviced the boat since it was new. All OK.

And , no. The hull did not have zinks on it before. I just put on two zinks on the hull. There were zinks on the motor, and I just ASSUMED that that was all that as necessary, becaused both the dealer and Alumaweld (I worked directly with Alumaweld as to what I wanted on the boat) knew that I was going to be operating in salt water.

[capesteve]

wow no zincs on hull in salt is crazy

[dave]

wow no zincs on hull in salt is crazy

Yea! The zinks were my idea. I had been working with the people at Alumaweld, and they never said one word about putting zinks on the hull.

[dave]

Took the boat out today with a new drain plug. No more leaks at all.

[goatram]

good to hear. Keep on fixing and using the boat.

[Katoh]

Hi Dave
Great to see you have your issues sorted. Here in Oz most smaller boats don't actually have zinc's on the hull, that I have noticed. I did ask about this once and was told that the motor zinc's are enough for the hull also. just be careful as you can over zinc a boat also.

[dave]

Hi Dave
Great to see you have your issues sorted. Here in Oz most smaller boats don't actually have zinc's on the hull, that I have noticed. I did ask about this once and was told that the motor zinc's are enough for the hull also. just be careful as you can over zinc a boat also.

I had originally thought the zinks on the motor would be sufficient. The welder said they had no affect on the hull, because it was isolated from the hull with insulation-adhesive. I just put two small zinks on the hull.

[Katoh]

I had originally thought the zinks on the motor would be sufficient. The welder said they had no affect on the hull, because it was isolated from the hull with insulation-adhesive. I just put two small zinks on the hull.

Dave, that's really interesting and actually in my opinion is the cause of your trouble. If your motor is isolated to hull it will have a different electrical potential to the hull. Kevin in a lot of his posts says you should have a bonding wire from motor to hull, this is even written in a lot of the boat building books in the wiring sections. With your motor bonded electrically to the hull your motor and hull will have the same potential, as they should. The most common place to use a bonding wire is from the negative side of your starter motor to one of the internal bolts that hold your motor onto the hull, you just have to make sure that there is good contact there, no paint or isolating washers to cause you problems. The wire should be green in the shielding colour and and the same gauge as the starter cables from the battery.
let us know how it all works out further down the track.

[dave]

Katoh

I didn't know about that jumper wire from the motor to the hull. When I spoke to the guy at Alumaweld, he didn't mention that. I will call him back and ask him about the grounding wire. Thanks.