How much horsepower?

[Chtucker]

Without a doubt we decided to switch our engine choice to Yamaha for the electronic controls.

Armstrong just built the boat with the inline 4cyl 200s. The boat topped out at 37knts. Weight was about 7500lbs. Our boat will be similarly equipped, maybe 400 to 500lbs heavier with the extra fuel and water system.

I am leaning towards the 4.2L offshore motors, at least the 225s if not the 250s.

The offshore motors have been on the market for longer, probably better power curve, higher output alternators, and obviously higher horsepower.

The cost difference between the 225s and 250s is negligible.

The other big issue is resale. We have looked at a lot of boats and skipped over those that were underpowered or wrong engine choice (2 stroke on one and 150s on 30' Eaglecraft).

No one has complained about too much horsepower...

I don't see a downside, besides potentially more fuel...

Any thoughts?

[goatram]

My boat is under 12,000 and I can get it to 47 mph or 40 Knots. It has the BF250 Hondas on it. You stated it will not cost much more to have the F250; so the horsepower to go with is the 250. Ran on Regular gas they will detune by a few HP so go Big or Stay at home

[Chaps]

on the 200/225/250 v6's the difference in power is mainly at WOT due to more exotic induction systems and high rpm cam tricks. Not worth paying for and installing on a family cruiser or fishboat IMO

[Chtucker]

I guess the big choice is between the inline 4 cylinder 200s and the 4.2l offshore V6. If I go with the V6 it will be the 250s.

The 200s pushed the boat WOT to 37-38knots lightly loaded. I am guessing we will have the boat at least another 1000 to 15000lbs heavier. More fuel, more water, dinghy/kicker, kids and their stuff, life raft and immersion suits (I just bought 2 adults and 2 kids off of Craiglist for cheap)

[Chtucker]

Doing some quick math(excluding rigging, which is probably higher on the Yamahas for parts, but lower in labor, cables vs plug and play fly by wire)

The Yamaha I4 200s would be $7k LESS than the Honda list price, $5k LESS difference based on Boats.net
Yamaha 4.2L 225s would be $1500 more LIST, $3500 more Boats.net
Yamaha 4.2L 250s would be $3k more LIST, $4600 more Boats.net

[Chtucker]

on the 200/225/250 v6's the difference in power is mainly at WOT due to more exotic induction systems and high rpm cam tricks. Not worth paying for and installing on a family cruiser or fishboat IMO

One other option that I have thought of is to go with a single 350. It probably would perform as well as twin 200s... But I don't know...

[Napa Mike]

seven large would pay for a lot of gas and future boating trips or more boating goodies! I'd go for the 200 yamis.

[Chtucker]

My boat is under 12,000 and I can get it to 47 mph or 40 Knots. It has the BF250 Hondas on it. You stated it will not cost much more to have the F250; so the horsepower to go with is the 250. Ran on Regular gas they will detune by a few HP so go Big or Stay at home

Just curious John.... Why do you think the actual weight of your boat is so much heavier than the claimed weight of the Armstrong?

I don't believe the claimed weight of 7500lbs. I would have guessed closer to 9 to 10k pounds.



Howard

[Chtucker]

My only concern is ensuring that my cruise is 25 knots or better. If WOT is 37knots...

I am trying to get a ride on the twin 200 boat.

[welder]

My boat is under 12,000 and I can get it to 47 mph or 40 Knots. It has the BF250 Hondas on it. You stated it will not cost much more to have the F250; so the horsepower to go with is the 250. Ran on Regular gas they will detune by a few HP so go Big or Stay at home

My BF225 gets it's HP on regular gas and I believe it is designed to run on 87 oct. and even lower, burning super or 93oct or higher does nothing for the motor and may even screw it up, I would think the Honda 250's would be the same. Check your owners manual and let us know if you would please .
I would go with as much HP as I could afford, it sure is nice having it and not needing it than needing it and not having it.
Easier on the bigger motors to cruse at half throttle than the smaller motors cruising at near full throttle. Might even be easier on the wallet with fuel burn.

[welder]

Found it on Hondas web site... http://marine.honda.com/owners/fuel-recommendations
Owners
What kind of fuel should I use in my Honda Marine engine?

Honda engines are designed and certified to run on regular unleaded gasoline.

Gasoline is allowed, by regulation, to contain a variety of additives. The same regulation limits how much of some additives, such as alcohol, can be included in the fuel and still be sold as gasoline. If you look in a Honda product owner’s manual, you will see that a maximum of 10% ethanol is allowed in gasoline (other oxygenates are also listed). Honda engines are designed for good performance and efficient operation using gasoline containing from 0 to 10% ethanol.

E85, a mixture of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, has been in the news recently. E85 is an alternative fuel; it is not gasoline. Honda Marine engines are not currently designed or certified to run on E85 or any other alternative fuel.

Always refer to your Honda owner’s manual for a list of recommended fuel and the current approved additives.

[dawgaholic]

In reading around, just what are the cost figures for the various mfg's running in the NW? How about the fly by wire ones? Just curious since you are talking $$$ that I don't consider chum change and its for your gratification. Like all, there is no replacement for displacement and it is always better to have reserve than not, so the HP question is simply the matter of how much is the boat designed to support imo. Guess living in the crowded Metro where the ability to escape the carelessness of others and merging onto eight lane highways traveling 70+ means one needs some power to survive, lol.

[Chtucker]

On further estimates, with less guessing..

The 200s would save me $5k over the 225 Hondas
The 250 Yamahas would cost me $5600 OVER the Hondas
The 225 Yamahas would cost me $4200 OVER the Hondas

$5k savings with the 200s buys my electronics that I haven't budgeted for.

[BroadCove]

I bought my Pacific 26' HT in 2007 w/ a 250hp Suzuki. I love the boat and the motor. Suzuki came out with the 300hp in 2007, and I had the option of going with that instead of the 250. I decided against it because it was the first year of production and the extra cost. That is the only decision I would change. Again, I love the boat, the 250 is great, but I wish I bought the 300. You have to respect your budget, but if you can swing it get the 250s. I would rather do that and delay the purchase of some of the extras if needed, because you're not likely to ever buy new motors for this boat again.

[Chaps]

Have you looked at and priced the Suzuki DF250AP engines? They come with electronic controls, seemed like you wanted that feature in a recent post.

[goatram]

My boat is under 12,000 and I can get it to 47 mph or 40 Knots. It has the BF250 Hondas on it. You stated it will not cost much more to have the F250; so the horsepower to go with is the 250. Ran on Regular gas they will detune by a few HP so go Big or Stay at home

Just curious John.... Why do you think the actual weight of your boat is so much heavier than the claimed weight of the Armstrong?

I don't believe the claimed weight of 7500lbs. I would have guessed closer to 9 to 10k pounds.



Howard

Every Damn Salesman will say that their equipment is weighs less. Be it a camper or Boat. They are partly correct but my weight is Wet with Full Fuel, Water, Gear, Oil, and everything under the sun that came on the boat from this past years fishing trips. Not counting the Water in the tank (60gls)or in the Fishbox when loaded with Ice(600). I have 208 gls of fuel and 8 gls of diesel, 15 gls of water. along with a few more in the bilge. I might be 15,000 fully loaded with the 6 each fat guys on the deck and the 37 tuna on the last trip. We ran in at 32mph at 4500 rpm burning just over 3.3 gls an hour each engine; Wind and Swell at my back.

[Chtucker]

Have you looked at and priced the Suzuki DF250AP engines? They come with electronic controls, seemed like you wanted that feature in a recent post.

No I haven't. Never heard anything bad, just not as common. I probably would prefer them over Mercury. Another one I would consider is the E-Tec, but that would have to take some commitment to go two stroke.. I think it would be a tough resale

Hard to find list prices on the bigger Suzuki motors..

[Chaps]

There is a dealer right there in Port Angeles who discounts them as well as anyone. I personally think Zuke's are the best engines right now.

http://www.papowerequipment.com/

[Chaps]

The DF250AP is basically a detuned version of their 300hp engine but it has all the latest technology. Quite a bit more advanced motor than the one on my boat.

[Chtucker]

Bottom line is I have to wait for Armstrongs numbers unless I go buy the motors myself. There has been some miscommunication and I believe they promised electronic controls with the Hondas. I am willing to switch manufacturers, and honestly I thought Honda would have factory fly by wire by now.

The 200s are probably fine. The difference in price between the 2225/250s is negligible.

I will probably change the electronics out over the life of the boat... I don't want to try to save $5k now when a repower costs $50k.

One thought I have had is running down to Oregon and buy the motors there. The savings in sales tax will pay for the difference in cost.

[BCTony]

My boat is under 12,000 and I can get it to 47 mph or 40 Knots. It has the BF250 Hondas on it. You stated it will not cost much more to have the F250; so the horsepower to go with is the 250. Ran on Regular gas they will detune by a few HP so go Big or Stay at home

Just curious John.... Why do you think the actual weight of your boat is so much heavier than the claimed weight of the Armstrong?

I don't believe the claimed weight of 7500lbs. I would have guessed closer to 9 to 10k pounds.



Howard

Every Damn Salesman will say that their equipment is weighs less. Be it a camper or Boat. They are partly correct but my weight is Wet with Full Fuel, Water, Gear, Oil, and everything under the sun that came on the boat from this past years fishing trips. Not counting the Water in the tank (60gls)or in the Fishbox when loaded with Ice(600). I have 208 gls of fuel and 8 gls of diesel, 15 gls of water. along with a few more in the bilge. I might be 15,000 fully loaded with the 6 each fat guys on the deck and the 37 tuna on the last trip. We ran in at 32mph at 4500 rpm burning just over 3.3 gls an hour each engine; Wind and Swell at my back.

32mph with only 6.6GPH engines combined - that is pretty fantastic economy!

[Chtucker]

Funny this was brought up today.. I have to make a decision in the next few hours..

I don't like my choices..

225 Hondas with cable controls
200 Yamahas with Fly by Wire for $11k more than Hondas
250 Yamahas with Fly by Wire for $15k more than the Hondas...

[goatram]

Should be Miles Per Gallon per engine. So 1.6 miles per gallon for the boat.

Sorry for the Confusion.

My Gallons per hour is around 10 to 11 per motor

[welderbob]

My Honda OEM Rep is telling me fly by wire will be out the first of the year. Maybe someone on the west coast can confirm it. I didn't get any pricing yet.
Welderbob

[welder]

Funny this was brought up today.. I have to make a decision in the next few hours..

I don't like my choices..

225 Hondas with cable controls
200 Yamahas with Fly by Wire for $11k more than Hondas
250 Yamahas with Fly by Wire for $15k more than the Hondas...

Cable controls on the Honda? Do you mean Hyd. Lines?