Small cuddy?

[TimButterfield]

Thanks, Mike. I haven't actually seen a Silverwing. The pictures looked nice, though. They sure like their foam. In the case of the Ocean King, it is referred to as "Sound deadening foam package" in the feature list. I did some more research on the Hewes foam on the owners forum and found some horror stories about it. They were primarily with the older versions. I'm not sure if it is still as much of an issue now as it was then. That some of the welds caused leaks didn't help my feeling of security. It seems, the more I learn, the more confused I get, kind of like analysis paralysis. That's not a good thing for furthering acquisition. When processes change over time, it is difficult to know which issues might have been resolved (or new ones created). I know some individual boats can have issues, but hope those are not indicative of trends for that manufacturer.

I saw a couple of interesting boats at the ramp yesterday. One was a Silver Streak cabin about 18 years old, still looking in good shape other than some oxidation and a loose weld on the front ladder. I think it might have been an early Runabout HT. Unlike the 'well' at the front of the Hewes, this was solid across the front and crowned in the center. The ladder flipped back from the front across the center in front of an opening window. One owner of a 220 Ocean Pro mentioned getting his last March and really liking it. His wife mentioned feeling safe in the 6' swells in the Strait. It all sounds good, but leaves me as confused as ever. :)

[Napa Mike]

Hey Tim:
You find a boat yet?

Mike

[TimButterfield]

Hi, Mike.

Short answer: not yet.

It's not perfectly clear yet where our optimal balance of fish focus vs cabin/cruise focus will land. Since this area and the boat are so much different than the 17' Smokercraft we had back in the midwest, we're having to guess how we will end up using it most. We know we're going to crab and fish, but can only guess as to how often. We know we will do a little bit of cruising, but can only guess at how comfortable we need to be when doing that part. We have not yet done enough of any of these in this area to know for sure. We went crabbing once, but not fishing or cruising yet. A bit of a wrench got thrown into the thinking with this comment I made: "You know, I could work on the boat and use the marina wifi since it's faster than the RV park." :) That opened up trying to determine if a dinette might be better than a removable table between two port/starboard benches, though the dinette with the cuddy might be more expensive. Then, it's seems shore power is more likely to be standard/optional on a non-alloy boat, maybe because the hull is not conductive. Of course, then there are all kinds of other trade offs between alloy and non-alloy. We thought about possibly getting a new C-Dory, but then the factory in Ferndale burned down last Friday, the day before we talked to a dealer at the Seattle boats afloat show. There are lots of possibilities that could work for us, almost too many. Narrowing down which might be better for us, since we don't know yet, is proving difficult. We're not in too much of a hurry, which is a good thing. I'm also checking used to see what might appear that checks the right boxes or pushes the right buttons. We've been out with friends in a couple of other boats, which was educational, though they were not the type of boat we're considering. I was a bit surprised that some dealers and even some manufacturers do not follow up on a sales prospect. Those do not give me confidence in getting after sales support.

I know I have some analysis paralysis to overcome. I've tried listening to my gut, but over time, it has chosen very different boats ranging from a Ranger Tug (25sc) to a C-Dory (22 Cruiser/23 Venture) to a Hewes (220 OceanPro/240 Alaskan). All could cruise/fish/crab, but to different degrees for each. Budget also plays a big factor. So, we're considering options, learning as we go, and are gradually whittling away at the gray areas. I would like to be on the water next year. If we don't settle on something before the Seattle Boat Show, we may just jump and hope.

Thanks for checking back.

Tim

[goatram]

Do Check out the Silverstreak . Very Nice Boat but on the higher end in price. Comes with a Self bailer and as you mentioned no well in front of the Windshield.
Allied Boats Made by Defiance in Port Orchard WA Is working on making a 24' Cuddy I believe. Talk to JD Hanson and not Jon if you are by there and want to look at them. JD Used to sell Northrivers in Smokey Point Up to when the Previous Owner messed around on his wife then Killed his wife after she siced the Feds on him for fraud

The Boat show is coming up.
Master Marine in Mount Vernon has a few Duckworths in stock as well as a Custom Weld. Go with the 21' and over length in the boat to get away from the Foam. Hewes is a nice boat. Raider is another boat to look at. Performance Marine in Everett has them in stock to climb around on.

[jj225]

If glass is back in the mix then look at Sea Sport 22'. Nice cabin with dinette and cuddy. Used ones aren't cheap. Might even be able to find one with an OB if that's what you want. Would free up deck space if you went that route. Older than 92 I think are only 8' wide. Also look at Osprey 22'. Or bigger if you can afford them.

Not sold on Definance. Having 2 boats capsize just makes me wonder. I mean I've never heard of say a Parker capsizing and I know there's more of those boats running around. Same with a Davis or Skipjack or Farallon etc etc etc. I know stuff happens but......just saying.

[TimButterfield]

Thanks, John. I cannot visit the Silverstreak factory as I do not yet have a passport. They show BoatCountry in Everett as a dealer, though they only show a 2012 21HT in stock and with a fish curtain instead of a bulkhead. From the pictures, I don't think the layout would work even with a bulkhead, not quite long enough. BoatCountry also has several Stabicraft in stock, though the bow segment angles weird me out a bit. I may take a look anyway if I decide to go down for the coho seminar at Bayside Friday evening. The Allied website shows a 22 & 24 Liberator coming soon. I checked the Master Marine web site, but do not see them carrying Duckworth. I've also talked with Marty there, but about C-Dory instead of alloy. They carry Thunderjet and Weldcraft. Cabela's in Tulalip carries Duckworth. That was where I heard about the Silverwing, though the Duckworth build spec web site was down at the time. It's been a couple of weeks and I still haven't heard anything further on that.

[TimButterfield]

Hi, jj. Glass has always been in the mix. It was alloy that was added not too long ago. I've ruled out any I/O in preference for outboard. If Sea Sport, it may need to be used. They are owned by NW Marine Industries that also owns C-Dory. I'm not sure if they are built in the same factory in Ferndale that C-Dory and Skagit Orca are built at, but that factory burned down last Friday.

[jj225]

Actually was thinking of used. Not sure how good the new boats are built these days. Read several things about Sea Sport going downhill before they went belly up during the "Great Recession". That the new models just were not as well built as the older ones. Not sure when they started to build them with the OB's though as it might fall into that time frame. Heard good things about Osprey but they are very heavy and that high bow angle takes some getting used to from owners that I've talked to.

Few years ago I looked into the Sea Sport 22'. Almost bought one but at the time I was going to have a partner and he didn't like the 5.0L that it came with. Plus it was older and only had the 8' beam. With the motor box I think it'd be a good idea to go with an OB as it takes up a fair amount of room. Plus with the cabin, it makes that deck even smaller. But that's one of the trade offs you have to consider.

Guys seem to love their C Dory's. Much like Arima owners. Cult following status.

[TimButterfield]

That is true, jj. It's all about the trade offs, compromises, and how to balance preferences, provided you know them. That's what we're trying to figure out. I have looked at used of many brands, alloy and non-alloy. Just as I have joined here to learn about alloy in general, I have also joined both alloy and non-alloy brand forums for Hewes, Arima, etc. to try to learn more about those particular brands. Checks of more general forums like Alaska outdoors and the hull truth have been done also. It's a bit funny how regional preferences play into those forums. But, they all give me different aspects to consider. I have looked at Sea Sport also, though they are a bit harder to find with outboards.

[paddler]

Saw an interesting boat for sale couple of weeks ago, but don't remember which site it was on. Glass, semi-displacment, nice cabin accommodations, 90HP Honda, built in the Seattle area IIRC. Price reduced to ~$100K. I'll look for it.

[TimButterfield]

I haven't seen many semi-displacement glass outboards. I've seen alloy in that configuration, something like the North Westerner 2510 made by Hybrid Boat Company. I saw this performance item posted on a forum: "cruises over 14 MPH, to about 20 MPH with a 90 HP Fuel efficient Power Thrust Honda outboard at 80% power." For comparison, the Ranger Tug 25 comes with a 150hp inboard diesel, heavier, but much more power. I'm not sure I want to cruise that slow. I think I would prefer a 20+mph cruise.

[Chtucker]

I beleive it is a Rosborough 246

http://www.rosboroughboatsusa.com/

[TimButterfield]

Sorry. Brain fart. I have looked at those, even thought of buying one at one point. The one I looked at had twin 90hp. I decided that if I were going to have a shower, I didn't really want it in the cockpit, even with a curtain. That's not as much of an issue for us now. That one also had the hard top extension, which would likely ruin a bunch of fishing rods if not careful. That's more of an issue now than it was then. Not all have that top extension. Definitely interesting. Since we're not quite sure what we want yet, from a possible resale standpoint, it might be safer to get a locally built brand; still not a guarantee, though.

[jj225]

Rosborough, believe it or not familiar with them as well. Took a good look at their 22'. Problem is it's an east coast boat. No sales support. Actually built in Nova Scotia if I remember correctly. I love the lines of the downeasters. Looked at several builders. Decent pricing too but in the end they were all on the wrong coast. Other than that my biggest issue is lack of freeboard. There just isn't any. Shin high is about it. Not sure about the 24'. D.E.'s are built to handle rough water though. Oh and most have a soft chine so they tend to rock. A lot. Or so I've been told.

You might want to look into the cruising speed of the C Dory. Don't think they are built for speed. Actually kind of like a D.E.

[TimButterfield]

C-Dory cruising speed depends on chop. With low chop, it should cruise at 20+mph. With chop, you need to slow and trim the bow down to reduce pounding. The Venture will do a little better in chop than the Cruiser as it has a bit more deadrise and is heavier. The C-dory TomCat will do much better and, with the right motors, can approach 50mph top speed.

[Napa Mike]

Hey Tim:
instead of cruising per se, you might consider just going camping and hauling your boat with you. It is easier on the budget if you go with just a day-boat setup. There are lots of great places to camp around here that are also at or near boat ramps or marinas with good fishing, crabbing, etc. that's what I've always done with my family. Good luck whatever you decide.

Mike

[TimButterfield]

Hi, Mike.

I'm not looking for a fancy cruiser, but even a day boat will need a head of some sort for us. I agree about pricing. We need an enclosed cabin so we can heat it. Something like a Hewes 220 OceanPro or SeaRunner is as close as we could get. Whatever we get, I would still prefer to leave it in the water since we're so close to it. I'm not sure how a 43' RV would do at the boat ramp.

Thanks.

Tim

[paddler]

I haven't seen many semi-displacement glass outboards. I've seen alloy in that configuration, something like the North Westerner 2510 made by Hybrid Boat Company. I saw this performance item posted on a forum: "cruises over 14 MPH, to about 20 MPH with a 90 HP Fuel efficient Power Thrust Honda outboard at 80% power." For comparison, the Ranger Tug 25 comes with a 150hp inboard diesel, heavier, but much more power. I'm not sure I want to cruise that slow. I think I would prefer a 20+mph cruise.

I think that's the boat I saw. Sorry, I thought it was glass. The one I saw for sale was green, and I can't find the listing now. Looks like a very nice design if you're not in a hurry. I've always like the Downeaster design as well. There's a guy over on ifish who owns a Fortier. Very clean lines. Not sure if it meets your needs, though:

http://www.fortierboats.com/

[TimButterfield]

I have come across another possible. It's the Thunderjet Alexis Offshore. Length: 22' (optional 23') Width: 102" Side/Transom Height: 40" Deadrise: 18° Power: 200-350hp The interesting thing about this one for us is that, even at this length, a transom door and port hull side door are options. Since my wife has had both knees replaced, that will make ingress/egress very much easier for her. An optional closed bow takes care of the water in the well worries. Similar to the Hewes OceanPro and SeaRunner, it has the port/starboard benches that convert to a berth and the porti-potty under one of them. When fitted with the HT/Alaskan, the TJ meets our minimum requires and has some benefits for us over the Hewes. Has anyone here had experience with them or heard anything about them?

Thanks.

Tim

Edit: It also has a self-bailing deck.

[TimButterfield]

Hi, Paddler. I like the Downeast looks also. Unfortunately, that usually excludes the hard bulkhead we need to keep the heat in.

Thanks.

Tim

[jj225]

Fortier does have a rear bulkhead. Just depends on which style you get. Same with other brands. Trust me I looked at a lot of boats. Keep in mind though that they are typically not OB's but rather inboards with a shaft/keel. Not the easiest thing to steer in tight quarters. Also due to weight you won't want to trailer and especially not with your RV.

[TimButterfield]

Going by Yachtworld, Fortier is rare on the west coast. I would rather stick with a local brand. Also, while I don't object to an inboard in principle, it does add yet another factor to consider and I'm having enough trouble already. ;)

[pjay9]

Hi, Paddler. I like the Downeast looks also. Unfortunately, that usually excludes the hard bulkhead we need to keep the heat in.

Thanks.

Tim

My Raider has the features you want...head...enclosed cockpit with full canvas that retains the heat. So it looks like you really want a hardsided cabin to satisfy those needs. I have fun with my boat year round and can tow it behind my camper. I guess it all depends on your outlook. BTW, I have seen downeasters with bulkheads of canvas and folding hard walls...it can be done...just how much you willing to spend.

[TimButterfield]

Yep. Budget is a factor. I'm not willing to pay for a lot of what is possible. It's not the cockpit that needs to be enclosed, but the cabin. I've ruled out a HT w/fish curtain in favor of the hard bulkhead as I do not want to have to disconnect/reconnect my electronics each time I go out at the otherwise unsecured marina slip.

[jj225]

Going by Yachtworld, Fortier is rare on the west coast. I would rather stick with a local brand. Also, while I don't object to an inboard in principle, it does add yet another factor to consider and I'm having enough trouble already. ;)

Yes agree completely. Although Wooldridge isn't quite "local" for me but at least it's on the same coast. Besides there aren't any alum. boat builders that are local. Closest one is in Medford OR. Plus I do have a lifetime warranty and they have great after service.

If I lived in MA or back in NJ (god forbid) I'd own a downeaster. End of story. Even the wife liked the lines and was OK with me getting one.

Go take a look at the 22' Arima Sea Legend. You may like that one.