Small, shallow-draft l/c?

General boating discussion
Wantry
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:44 pm
11
Location: Oneida Lake, NY

Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#1

Post by Wantry »

What are the collective thoughts of the forum on the merits, drawbacks, and leading builders of the small (20' class, 115hp o/b propulsion) landing crafts and similar open skiffs, like the Stanley Predator/Pulsecraft series, Metalcraft bullnose series, etc.? Who else is making them in the NE US?

As I think i may have posted in the past, this is a boat for personal recreation -- fishing, camping, and especially duck hunting on the Finger Lakes, Great Lakes, and limited estuarine/coastal use. Carrying a lot of people/decoys/dogs/gear safely over rough fresh (and occasionally salt) water; knocking around into shallow places; beaching frequently; trailering off-road and launching at un-improved launch sites, etc.

Anybody have first-hand experience with boats this size and configuration?
dingahling
Donator ,15
Posts: 70
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:41 pm
14

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#2

Post by dingahling »

No personal experience, but add Munson Boats to the list.
Jimmy Buffett has one that I've seen in these parts, but he can afford to ship it cross country...
MacCTD
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:53 pm
15
Location: MA

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#3

Post by MacCTD »

I have a Pacific 1925 in MA, it is great for larger lakes and inshore salt water, the biggest issue with plate aluminum boats in this size is the cost, very few in the northeast are willing to pay what they cost. I bought mine used and had it shipped from CA.
'05 Pacific 1925
Mercury 150
Wantry
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:44 pm
11
Location: Oneida Lake, NY

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#4

Post by Wantry »

The couple of PACs I've been on are overkill for my application. Granted they are really nice, but that's not really the hull config I'm after, after all. If all I did with it was fish, it would be!

Local office of USDA Wildlife Services had a ThunderJet that worked real nice for the waters around here. Theirs was a 22 and scaled down to 20 it would work for what i want to do, and be in the price range if I power it right. I helped them spec it out, and i don't think they paid too much to ship it, but I'm not buying on gummint contract, either. I have no idea what a 20' Thunderjet LC boat would cost me as a private citizen?

I've hunted some out of a Stanley Pulsecraft. Really cool boat with a lot of sensible tradeoffs that work for me, but it's a 24' hull that weighs 3000 lb. with a 175hp Evinrude at $55,000 for the rig ... each of those numbers is overkill for what I'm trying to accomplish. A littler version of the same design is what I'm looking for IF it has roughly proportional ride in the rough stuff. I can't really get a handle on whether the 20' Pulsecraft and 20' Predator are the same hull design, just scaled down, or if they're glorified jon boats. I haven't even seen any that size in person, yet.

Garmin survey was running Munsons around here all summer. Do they make a smaller L/C? The ones I've seen are all real big.

Winninghoff makes nice "barges" and really nice skiffs, but I do not think he would be interested in making up one as small or unrefined as what I have in mind.

Sound's Bullnose series are cool looking boats and the small skiffs he had on here a few months back are neat ... I just don't see designs out there for anything in between. Maybe I'm looking the wrong places?

When this process started i was looking at 20-22' shallow-deadrise v-hulls on more traditional lines, but I think the LC concept (or the Predator which looks like an LC hull with ramps instead of drop door) is more the way I want to go in terms of what I need to carry and where. I'm a still little concerned about whether the smaller LC's beat one up too bad, compared to their big sisters.
Voyageur
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:47 pm
13

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#5

Post by Voyageur »

Wantry wrote:What are the collective thoughts of the forum on the merits, drawbacks, and leading builders of the small (20' class, 115hp o/b propulsion) landing crafts and similar open skiffs, like the Stanley Predator/Pulsecraft series, Metalcraft bullnose series, etc.? Who else is making them in the NE US?

As I think i may have posted in the past, this is a boat for personal recreation -- fishing, camping, and especially duck hunting on the Finger Lakes, Great Lakes, and limited estuarine/coastal use. Carrying a lot of people/decoys/dogs/gear safely over rough fresh (and occasionally salt) water; knocking around into shallow places; beaching frequently; trailering off-road and launching at un-improved launch sites, etc.

Anybody have first-hand experience with boats this size and configuration?
Hello Wantry,

The question I have for you is how shallow you want to go and how often? That is in sharp contrast to the ideal boat for open water navigation, say on the great lakes. You're going to find that all boats are compromises(i'm sure you know this). You have Lund Alakan's right? 18'? Is this a quest to replace this rig? Do you want a tender for layouts or will you make a duck blind out of it?

-Voyageur
(aka KK-MN @ duckhunter.net) the world is getting smaller by the minute, lol!
Chaps
Donator '09
Posts: 2246
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:19 am
16
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#6

Post by Chaps »

I's check out the plans by Specmar, find one you like and have welderbob build it for you with your own personal tweaks. The beauty of alloy is you can go custom and get exactly want you want.

Link: Specmar L/C's
1987 24' LaConner pilothouse workboat, 225 Suzuki
Image
please view and like: https://www.facebook.com/bottompainting/
welderbob
Donator ,15
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:14 am
15
Location: Holbrook,NY
Contact:

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#7

Post by welderbob »

Thanks Chaps for the recommendation,

A quick look at the Specmar site shows an 18' and 21'. Since it is basically the same amount of work to build either boat,lets look at the 21'. The first cost you have is the design/cutting file cost of $1400. The design calls for 3400lb of un-cut aluminum sheet. Current price at Yarde Metals is about $3.25/ lb (calculator please)=$11,050. Specmar doesn't specify if there is a fuel tank in there, but you will need one. It also must be EPA compliant.(builders problem). now where at $12,450. for the basic hull/material. Throw in a couple hundred hours of labor to build and rig the boat , add a motor and your back to 55/60 k conservatively.

Our 20 ft flat bottom industrial workboat is $22k. It is not designed to go fast, you will get wet on a choppy day, and it will beat you to death!. It does well on the job site,beating in to concrete pilings, moving the crane barge because the tug left for another job, or being lifted by the crane as a mobile platform (not OSHA approved ).

Not the biggest fan of registered trade mark ,but the one for sale in NJ might not be a bad deal.

Welderbob
Wantry
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:44 pm
11
Location: Oneida Lake, NY

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#8

Post by Wantry »

18 and 20 Alaskans... which we use for all of the above, as well as fishing and camping. I will need to replace my 18 at some point in the next few years... It's still a sturdy craft but it won't take too many years of ice breaking and rock pounding, so it'll be time to move it on to someone that doesn't use it as hard. I was going pull the trigger this spring to have a boat ready for fall, but baby daughters turn out to be pretty expensive. So, on the bright side, more time to explore and plan.

Very honestly the shallow draft (and ability to tow and launch off-road) is a bigger deal than hairy chested open water navigation. Even a 19' Pacific is a whole lot more boat than a 20 Alaskan, but I don't need that much hull under me. And I wouldnt be able to get a Pacific into the backwaters and onto the beaches I hit 50+ times a year.

My default, if I can't get a small open welded boat worked out, will be another Alaskan, or maybe the equivalent Crestliner. One-off welded is out of the question... If I'm going to spend $60K i might as well buy two Alaskans so i have a spare. So a "stock" welded boat the right size with the right compromises is where my head's at right now. Bob you got any pictures of that industrial boat that you could share? I appreciate the thoughtful advice...
Wantry
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:44 pm
11
Location: Oneida Lake, NY

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#9

Post by Wantry »

In general terms -- as far as i can tell from the drawings and descriptions -- my sweet spots for hull weight, cargo capacity, deadrise and power requirements fall somewhere between these two hulls:

http://www.specmar.com/media/2087/21-ft ... ebsite.pdf

http://www.specmar.com/media/1933/18-ft ... ebsite.pdf
Voyageur
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:47 pm
13

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#10

Post by Voyageur »

.

Wantry,

PM me your email address, I may have something you'd be interested in.


.
User avatar
welder
Site Admin
Posts: 4667
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:51 pm
16
Location: Whitesboro, Texas
Contact:

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#11

Post by welder »

Lester,
PacificV2325, Honda BF225
2386
MacCTD
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:53 pm
15
Location: MA

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#12

Post by MacCTD »

welder wrote:It aint NE but look here>>>>> http://www.wooldridgeboats.com/catalog/products/alaskan
Surprised to read those have plywood PT floors in them, must be isolated from the aluminum some how.
'05 Pacific 1925
Mercury 150
User avatar
welder
Site Admin
Posts: 4667
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:51 pm
16
Location: Whitesboro, Texas
Contact:

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#13

Post by welder »

Glen and the Boys use the right type of plywood with the right type of coating and install correctly.
I've spent a couple weeks on one of their 24's up in Alaska over the last couple years with a plywood deck and there appears to be NO issues with the boat. Also an Alloy deck can be installed, just call Glen.
Lester,
PacificV2325, Honda BF225
2386
Chaps
Donator '09
Posts: 2246
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:19 am
16
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#14

Post by Chaps »

here's a candidate for you, an 18' skiff sold by a dealer in Port Angeles for $15.5k plus engine. Looks very well built IMO, shallow draft, side console so lots of interior room

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/bod/4694327338.html

QUESTIONS CALL BART
360-452-4652
18' skiff.jpg
18' skiff 2.jpg
1987 24' LaConner pilothouse workboat, 225 Suzuki
Image
please view and like: https://www.facebook.com/bottompainting/
Wantry
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:44 pm
11
Location: Oneida Lake, NY

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#15

Post by Wantry »

The hull on that 18 looks configured about like what i have in mind. The cockpit has too much lockers, benches, and other level-flotation compromises. I am hoping to find room for two, 8' gun/rod lockers (or one big one); pedestals (or perched on the side locker) seating for four; and at least a 9' by 5' flat "dance floor" unobstructed by lockers or benches to stow and deploy the decoys.
Chaps
Donator '09
Posts: 2246
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:19 am
16
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#16

Post by Chaps »

Wantry wrote:The hull on that 18 looks configured about like what i have in mind. The cockpit has too much lockers, benches, and other level-flotation compromises. I am hoping to find room for two, 8' gun/rod lockers (or one big one); pedestals (or perched on the side locker) seating for four; and at least a 9' by 5' flat "dance floor" unobstructed by lockers or benches to stow and deploy the decoys.
The boat is likely available with any kind of layout you want. Call that Bart guy.
1987 24' LaConner pilothouse workboat, 225 Suzuki
Image
please view and like: https://www.facebook.com/bottompainting/
welderbob
Donator ,15
Posts: 491
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:14 am
15
Location: Holbrook,NY
Contact:

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#17

Post by welderbob »

Wantry,
the reason the are lockers, seats and benches is for flotation. boats less than 20' have to meet a USCG standard for floatation.

If you want a boat less than 20 that doesn't meet those standard you have to call it "commerical", which they are making mor and more difficult to register.

your government here to protect you.

welderbob
Wantry
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:44 pm
11
Location: Oneida Lake, NY

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#18

Post by Wantry »

Understood, and I think I need a 20' boat anyway to carry all the crap I want to carry. The 18 Specmar has enough "dance floor" but I don't imagine I could get one of those built right in this day and age of gummint intrusion. If I wanted an 18 tin boat with foam in it i would go buy another Alaskan. For the $$$ i'm trying to do something better suited to my purposes. I don't wan t to let perfect be the enemy of good, but I do want something better than what I have now, if I'm going to spend the money.

Got any pictures or drawing references of your 20' workboat that you mentioned?
Wantry
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:44 pm
11
Location: Oneida Lake, NY

Re: Small, shallow-draft l/c?

#19

Post by Wantry »

I went and looked at one of these a couple weeks ago. This is the Stanley Predator 18. 3/16" plate, spec weight 1200 lb., looks (to my untrained eye) to be about a 6* deadrise. It looks interesting but underpowered at max HP rating of 75. The 20 calls for up to a 90, which is also underpowered probably. On the other hand neither of these little skiffs is fifty grand by the time it's sitting on my trailer.

There might be some merit to using the 18 or 20 as a base, if I can get the builder or the aftermarket to delete some things I don't need (ramps, etc.) and add some that I do (forward deck with storage). Thoughts or comments on this general design, or any first-hand experience with these boats? Bob, is your workboat that you mentioned similar to this?

Image

Image

Image

BTW I thought about commercial vs. foam question before I started this exploration. I'm pretty sure I don't want a commercial hull given how I intend to use (and insure) it. Foam's my enemy but it's not a show-stopper. The 18 in the picture has plenty of foam ... but none of it is in the way of the open deck space.
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic