14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

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hershey2014
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14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#1

Post by hershey2014 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:01 pm

I would like to find a new deep vee aluminum boat with a self-bailing deck. This stock boat should be between 14 and 18 feet with a beam of at least 70 inches. If you know of any stock models meeting these criteria, please reply. I live in rural eastern Canada and there are not a whole lot of boat dealers in my area so I am sure there are many boats I have do not know about. I know there are many internet sites but many are big on sales and not so big on detail. Thanks for your help.

kmorin
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#2

Post by kmorin » Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:57 pm

hersh'14
there are couple of observations about your question that might be worth your consideration?

What does your use of the term "deep V"- mean? Is that a 27deg deadrise as the open ocean racers use the term? is that 12-15degrees at the transom? 90to 95% of the little production run-abouts have warped hulls- some entry forward but nearly flat at the stern- all due to displacement vs shape.

If you have a tiny 14' skiff with a real world deep V- it will lay over on its side and float from the keel to the chine as a flat bottom skiff!!! You'd need ballast to keep a tiny skiff upright with a Deep V so this is why the term needs some more attention.

You might try defining the amount of V from chine to chine? say " 4" of V in 35" of beam"? or something along those lines?

Some definitions of terms would be in order- IMO?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin

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gandrfab
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#3

Post by gandrfab » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:56 am

To add, 4' of difference in LOA when talking 14' to 18' is a huge difference when on the water in a boat.

MacCTD
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#4

Post by MacCTD » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:29 am

Hard to find an aluminum self bailing skiff that small, Pacific 1925 is the closest I can think of but it is 19'.
'05 Pacific 1925
Honda 90hp

alumioforte
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#5

Post by alumioforte » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:47 pm

have you looked at the 16' ORCA by Specmar? we're building one at the moment.

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gandrfab
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#6

Post by gandrfab » Fri Feb 15, 2019 9:28 am

alumioforte wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:47 pm
have you looked at the 16' ORCA by Specmar? we're building one at the moment.
Would you please post build pictures?
Is this the designers page.
http://www.specmar.com/aluminum-boat-pl ... -orca-1327

Orca16.PNG
Orca16.PNG (94.17 KiB) Viewed 510 times

kmorin
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#7

Post by kmorin » Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:50 pm

the drawing is confusing to me? Baseline is shown at keel but listed as WL? Unique in my experience? baseline and waterline being two very distinct lines in the Profile view... can't conclude much there. The Displacement at 1,900 lb at the baseline isn't a term of design I've ever seen? An "at-rest" waterline of "all up" displacement (fully loaded; hull, engine; fuel; crew and gear?) seems a bit on the high side for a little skiff but that may imply something other than what I read?

This may all be part of the drawings' distortion to prevent 'ripping off' the skiff plans?? Probably is?

AT a short ton, (2k lb.) all-up and 17 deg at the transom, despite the 14-18" wide triangular flat at the keel, she will heal/roll/tip sideways; pretty well, if not underway. So standing still/on the hook and fishing over the sides of this skiff will be fairly fatiguing. Normal crew movement, will roll her "like a log" in flat calm conditions and in a beam swell of even a foot or two- the end of the day will leave you with good case of "sea legs".

Entry is nice and steep, so she'll run nicely into a chop, and the reverse chine plate will knock down spray climbing the hull in smaller seas. If she's run hard into a taller (3' plus) chop or swell then her rub rail design/overhang will come into play. If there is reasonable overhang (1" plus?) of the sheer/gunwale/topsides' upper extrusion (?) then the deeper immersion into the taller seas will be diverted outward away from the hull. If not? if the rub rail cross section at the sheer is closer to flush or too rounded, she will allow the seas of a 3' or deeper chop to climb the sides and become wet.

In a head sea combined with a bow-too breeze; she'll be wet astern in most any chop. But the very forward placement of the console (shown in Profile View) will mean most of the wind spray will cover the aft 1/2 or 1/3 of the skiff not the helmsman.

Not seeing the scantling's chart, I can't expect to estimate the overall stiffness, but like most of Specialty's designs- she's a tank that floats. Those full deck height longs from hull to deck insure the hull's integrity as the bottom impact anywhere in the 1/4 buttock areas are supported by full length, deck depth, vertical plates!!!

Drawing appears to have been distorted to protect the design, so can only be used for a concept of the skiff's proportionality. The hull's triangular flat plate at the keel is not shown in proportion in the Plan View- so its not easy to relate the other views; but even with "only" a 17deg transom she will "roll like a log"!!

Just a quickie review of the image shown and the skiff those lines will produce.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin

alumioforte
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#8

Post by alumioforte » Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:57 pm

Kevin,
Right now we are cutting one of these for a customer who bought this Orca 16. We begin welding next week- would you like us to keep you posted on progress?

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gandrfab
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#9

Post by gandrfab » Tue Feb 19, 2019 5:02 am

That would be great. Show off your work and we can drool.

Crap, I missed that was more of a private message. Please include the forum.

alumioforte
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#10

Post by alumioforte » Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:01 am

Will do!

kmorin
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#11

Post by kmorin » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:23 pm

alumino,
The whole Forum would enjoy watching a build post!! And SpecMar would be getting some good exposure- I don't see them mentioned as much here as I think might be proportional to their market share.

You might start with a brief mention the plans/cut files package arrangements? I think many readers may not know the files (NC G-Code tool paths) are most often not sent to a plans 'buyer'? Instead these computer files are sent directly to the NC or cutting service- unless that is in house to your building firm? (ie you have your on NC table) & If.... IF the files are sent to a builder with their own NC table- what are the contract conditions to receive a set of 'cut files'?

This would be helpful for anyone reading who may be considering buying a cut file plans package and building their own boat from that level upward?

The reason is to make sure the files remain confidential to the designer/CAD/CAM creator- and second to insure the files are fully 'readable' or fully compliant with that particular CAM/NC cutting services' table controlling software? As there are several different software packages that can drive a cutting table's various controls- its important the cutting service or builder with their own NC table, confirms the CAM files are fully 'compatible' or 'readable' with their systems.

So, Alumio, I think it will be a worth while post to help others understand how you're going about the SpecMar skiff's cut out?

Thanks, for sharing what time allows.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin

alumioforte
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#12

Post by alumioforte » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:22 am

Perfect! Yes will do! We just finished cutting it, first pics coming shortly!

MacCTD
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#13

Post by MacCTD » Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:14 am

One 3 Powerboats posted about this boat recently on IG, I believe they said they started at $10k with a 20hp.
https://www.one3powerboats.com/14-north-atlantic-v
'05 Pacific 1925
Honda 90hp

kmorin
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#14

Post by kmorin » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:44 pm

Mac, while that seems a great price point with engine included? The images linked highlight the design challenges for this very small LOA.

The chine is hogged to get the rise of the bow, to get the V, to get the entry, to get a warped bottom that is not just a 'pram' bow. Very hard to overcome! in this LOA. A deeper forefoot, with a tighter Profile View curve upward is about the only answer and that path was not taken as shown in the images of this skiff.

The mini-Rybovich sheer is also quite homely, IMO, as the curves are too tight and close to one another- resulting in the hogged line of the skiffs' sheer. Again, an industry wide design problem that has resulted in flat and hollow sheers - over this re-curved or Western sheer shown on this skiff. Very difficult to make this line flowing and sleek when all the changes have to take place in 14' LOA!

I haven't been able to find a compound sheer with this much relief, in this short distance; that I could accept on the drawing board- so I've stayed with the hollow (traditional) lines because the images shown are not attractive in my view of skiff lines.

The topsides forward are nearly plumb, so the skiff will be wet in any chop or seaway that is deeper than the homely raised chine. Perhaps there's an overhang of the rub rail assembly, at the sheer, that might knock down water climbing the hull above the reverse chine? but generally she's wet in a 2' chop if you're bucking the afternoon breeze, even on a lake.

This skiff shows the (previously mentioned) challenges to designers in this small size (LOA) - finding lines that are attractive in a short length, and establishing a V of any depth to enhance entry and running pounding- are very, very challenging. The compromises shown in this particular skiff are illustrations to me of the many years of frustration I've experienced in trying to design and build a 'pretty boat' that was of short LOA.

Everyone's taste in marine lines vary, mine included. However, this skiff, linked above, is so homely that I cannot understand how anyone would want one? But then, I can't understand dozens of market forces in the welded aluminum boat business so my view is likely out of pace with others'?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
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Re: 14-18 Deep Vee with a Self-Bailing Deck

#15

Post by welder » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:00 pm

Kevin, good reply and I like the way you ended your above post.
Guys, Kevin is correct in how hard it is to make a small hull that is pleasing to the eye for EVERYONE and that we all have our own opinion on shapes and lines.
Kevin, as always gives his honest opinion, I appreciate that and it makes the rest of us think a little harder about what works and does it look good for our own wants and needs.
Lester,
PacificV2325, Honda BF225
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