Sharkhide aluminum protectant alternative?

[emudryj]

Hi guys!!! New to the forum here!! I frequent other boating forums though.... it was funny to see Jim from BOE here too!!!
I was told that you guys are like the Top Gun forum in regard to aluminum maintenance and protection so I wanted to get some opinions...

I'm going to be cleaning and polishing an I beam aluminum trailer. It it not badly corroded at all or anything like that. It has a healthy chalky protection coating of oxide, which I understand some of the hard core aluminum guys would prefer. I'm going for a more shiny finish, but would like it to last.

I was planing to clean the trailer with some Alumabrigth first (still need to know which one is the correct one and learn how to apply it), polish with some Flitz metal polish, and then I know I have to protect the surface or I would get the chalky oxide again.

The only thing I know is Sharkhide (never used it but heard of it) but from several comments, I've got the impression that it will be easily removed by common cleaning fluids while washing the boat on the trailer, AND is like 60 bucks a quarter!!!!!

So here are the questions I was hoping you can helping me.
1- Can you guys point me (with a link hopefully) to the best or correct Alumabrigth to get?
2- Is there any good video out there on the best-most effective way to use it?
3- Is it Flitz what you would use to polish aluminum or is it anything else better than that?
4- Is it my impression about Sharkhide correct? can it be easily messed by any common cleaning product?
5- Is it there a better alternative to Sharkhide???

Thanks in advance guys...

[kmorin]

emudryj,
glad to see you've joined the AAB.com Forum, welcome to the discussion of welded plate aluminum boats. We may not be the top gun forum but we sure have our own opinions!

It has a healthy chalky protection coating of oxide,

We're going to need to have pics or a better term than "chalky" which usually indicates a hydroxide of aluminum not an oxide of aluminum. 99.9 times out of 100 aluminum oxide is not visible and takes on the color and texture of the metal below. Aluminum oxide is not chalky but aluminum hydroxide and its other corrosion resultant compounds sure are! If is white chalky- "It Ain't Good". (rule of thumb)

Is the trailer of 6061 or 6063? (makes huge difference) One way to make that guess/estimation/assessment is to follow your VIN back to the mfg. and ask? Some makers use 6063 because is can be formed more easily, since 6061 is not as easily formed and will sometimes strain crack in bending (due almost entirely to die treatment and surface lubrication) so - some trailer builders have used 6063 which has very SIGnificant different surface reaction to salts! 6063 age hardens into about the same properties as 6061, while leaving it more malleable to form when recently extruded.... bUTTT, and this can be a problem- if regularly immersed the copper component in the 6063 can begin to foster internal galvanic deterioration. Caution about alloy is good practice.

#1 Zep-a-Lume is probably the strongest acid etch solution for cleaning (removing oxides, hydroxides, contaminants and coatings) of aluminum marine and extrusion alloys. IT is a product of the Zep Chemical Co. but seems to be (as reflected by many, many threads here- to be controlled in some states.) http://www.superkleendirect.com/zepa-lume.aspx strong solutions are 'cheaper' since you can dilute them to whatever workable solution/concentration your patch tests show is needed to get the cleaning you'll accept.

#2 no need for vids- its simple: test a patch with some solution of pure to diluted (the test shows what your application needs); Next mix the Zep with warm (NOTTTTTTT!!Q!!Q! hot water) and A) if possible spray B) if not spread with sponge C) wear proper PPE and read the MSDS or don't even consider thinking of doing this work. When covered wait until the acid stops foaming and rinse with garden hose. Let dry- done.

[Full Disclosure: IF for any reason under the sun, you are one of those poor, utterly ignorant souls who think a piece of paper with a rubber band around your head is sufficient breathing protection when you need a "half face, air purifying, chemical cartridge, fully sealing, fit tested, respirator" ??? THEN, do not get involved. You do not have the worldly discernment to read or consider using acid properly. This is no joke.]

#3 Flitz with a power buffer means that you can skip the acid etch since the mechanical abrasion will remove any oxide or hydroxide films and the etch is then redundant.

#4 Sharkhide is a clear film type of product that will stand up to washing. Its intended application can be a little bit touchy; if the film is not applied well, and dried well, we've seen instances posted here where it came off. Well applied the purpose is to retain a shine/sheen to the parent metal. Downside of Sharkhide or any other film;once the film is breached, chemically, galvanically, or mechanically- it them promotes a crevice cell corrosion by trapping water inside the film. Do it right, tight and correctly - or don't do it at all.

#5 using terms like "better" without the needed qualifiers is not going to get much reply on this site! For example I consider it silly to shine a metal boat- unless I was building a bikini freighter for Florida. I like a nice flat dull gray surface, but then others prefer other looks so "better" is kind of undefined. "Better" is too relative, I think you'd need to explain your goal- shiny boat for longer? 'protecting' the aluminum? preserving the mill scale? lots of places we could go with the term 'better'.

I'll hope that Chaps, AAB.com's resident "Pro from Dover" in regards all aluminum coatings, painting, treating, and finishing will see your thread and reply.

Welcome to the Forum, what boat is on this alloy trailer?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

[emudryj]

emudryj,
glad to see you've joined the AAB.com Forum, welcome to the discussion of welded plate aluminum boats. We may not be the top gun forum but we sure have our own opinions!

It has a healthy chalky protection coating of oxide,

We're going to need to have pics or a better term than "chalky" which usually indicates a hydroxide of aluminum not an oxide of aluminum. 99.9 times out of 100 aluminum oxide is not visible and takes on the color and texture of the metal below. Aluminum oxide is not chalky but aluminum hydroxide and its other corrosion resultant compounds sure are! If is white chalky- "It Ain't Good". (rule of thumb)
I'm not around the trailer right now, bur I'm attaching a couple of pictures I have around and see what you think... if these are not clear enough, let me know and will take some close ups..




Is the trailer of 6061 or 6063? (makes huge difference) One way to make that guess/estimation/assessment is to follow your VIN back to the mfg. and ask? Some makers use 6063 because is can be formed more easily, since 6061 is not as easily formed and will sometimes strain crack in bending (due almost entirely to die treatment and surface lubrication) so - some trailer builders have used 6063 which has very SIGnificant different surface reaction to salts! 6063 age hardens into about the same properties as 6061, while leaving it more malleable to form when recently extruded.... bUTTT, and this can be a problem- if regularly immersed the copper component in the 6063 can begin to foster internal galvanic deterioration. Caution about alloy is good practice.

The trailer brand is Sportline which I understand is a cheaper version of Loadmaster. I called them and they say it is 6061.

#1 Zep-a-Lume is probably the strongest acid etch solution for cleaning (removing oxides, hydroxides, contaminants and coatings) of aluminum marine and extrusion alloys. IT is a product of the Zep Chemical Co. but seems to be (as reflected by many, many threads here- to be controlled in some states.) http://www.superkleendirect.com/zepa-lume.aspx strong solutions are 'cheaper' since you can dilute them to whatever workable solution/concentration your patch tests show is needed to get the cleaning you'll accept.

#2 no need for vids- its simple: test a patch with some solution of pure to diluted (the test shows what your application needs); Next mix the Zep with warm (NOTTTTTTT!!Q!!Q! hot water) and A) if possible spray B) if not spread with sponge C) wear proper PPE and read the MSDS or don't even consider thinking of doing this work. When covered wait until the acid stops foaming and rinse with garden hose. Let dry- done.

[Full Disclosure: IF for any reason under the sun, you are one of those poor, utterly ignorant souls who think a piece of paper with a rubber band around your head is sufficient breathing protection when you need a "half face, air purifying, chemical cartridge, fully sealing, fit tested, respirator" ??? THEN, do not get involved. You do not have the worldly discernment to read or consider using acid properly. This is no joke.]

Great.. wont fool with that thing so...

#3 Flitz with a power buffer means that you can skip the acid etch since the mechanical abrasion will remove any oxide or hydroxide films and the etch is then redundant.

AWESOME!!! this will help because I will not have to deal with the whole Acid handling stuff... I will go straight to the Flitz and be done with it.

#4 Sharkhide is a clear film type of product that will stand up to washing. Its intended application can be a little bit touchy; if the film is not applied well, and dried well, we've seen instances posted here where it came off. Well applied the purpose is to retain a shine/sheen to the parent metal. Downside of Sharkhide or any other film;once the film is breached, chemically, galvanically, or mechanically- it them promotes a crevice cell corrosion by trapping water inside the film. Do it right, tight and correctly - or don't do it at all.
#5 using terms like "better" without the needed qualifiers is not going to get much reply on this site! For example I consider it silly to shine a metal boat- unless I was building a bikini freighter for Florida. I like a nice flat dull gray surface, but then others prefer other looks so "better" is kind of undefined. "Better" is too relative, I think you'd need to explain your goal- shiny boat for longer? 'protecting' the aluminum? preserving the mill scale? lots of places we could go with the term 'better'.

Ok... here we go... let see if this can clarify it.. never mind much about the trailer or how shiny it is, but since I'm rebuilding it and will have the boat off it and open access to a lot of places and crevices that most of the time are hidden under the boat, I would like to give it a shot.
I do not usually have the chance of this. The boat stays on the trailer ALL the time, except when we are boating.
Given the opportunity, I would like to clean and polish it it really good. I understand that If I polished it, I have to protect the shine. Otherwise would be better not to do anything and save the trouble.
Just to be clear... Just doing it because I have the opportunity. I'm not planing to do this every 6 month at all. Not a life or death situation, just trying to seize the opportunity, hoping it stays shiny as long as possible...

That being said let me rephrase my question. if you need to find a compromise to protect aluminum to keep the shine after polish, and would like to get the most durable results, for the longest possible, with the easiest application... what product would you go with?

Additional info.
Trailer is sunk on South FL salty ocean water. I tried to rinse with fresh water when available, but it is never perfect specially after launching the boat, since it stays at the marina and fresh water is not always readily available.
Among other common cleaning chemicals, like boat soap, some white vinegar, and some bilge cleaner i try to use Salt Away to remove dried up salt deposits on the trailer.

I'll hope that Chaps, AAB.com's resident "Pro from Dover" in regards all aluminum coatings, painting, treating, and finishing will see your thread and reply.

Welcome to the Forum, what boat is on this alloy trailer?
I understand that NON ALLOY is a bad word here, but since you asked....it is a 2006 Hydra Sport Vector 3300VX...

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

What a thoughtful response!!! thanks in advance for taking the time to write all that...
I'm going to comment in bold over your response to keep things organized...

[kmorin]

emudryj, that trailer has corrosion all over it! That's not healthy, and you should adjust your knowledge base to include aluminum hydroxide 'flowers' that aren't aluminum oxide !

The only problem with a mechanical cleaning of a trailer is the complexity of the parts' shapes means there is a horrendous amount of work to get into the tight places and dis assembly has to be very complete to reach all the areas. Very big job, acid (taken care of with planning) will save hundreds and hundreds of hours. But, then if you don't feel like you're willing to learn to use the stuff- don't- error on the side of caution.

Do look into the chance that a local tanker truck trailer service might do the entire job for you? They use the stuff all the time and as they would be geared up to clean highway tank trailers (then) they'd surely be able to do your boat trailer like it was just a coffee break. Not saying their interested in the work, just worth asking.

Flitz is so fine a grit that I'd recommend looking for some real world grits before going to Flitz. Flitz is probably 2500 grit or better and you'd want to start in the 80-100 grit class- making a Flitz only job take so long you won't want to consider that work. But the mechanical access issue remains, regardless if you're up to speed on grit sequence yet?

Build a small freshwater tank for the trailer stem and rinse when you pull her out to sit in the parking lot while boating. Commonly done on lots of rigs where the owner is informed about salt drying and starting galvanic or crevice site cells. The mill scale was never removed from this set of extrusions and that alone contributes some to the existing poor surface appearance- 99% of manufactures only want the product out the door and neglect long term performance; but there are some who remove mill scale and they're the most advanced in the business usually.

I have no shine product recommendations. I don't care for shine, I prefer dull gray- etched and aged. I like the metal for its natural beauty- that is "in the eye of the beholder". I'm not a "shiny is good" boat builder/owner/driver. I've only washed a car once or twice in my life- if the rain can't clean it up- fine with me, it's job is to move my heavy displacement stern from point A to B, not to be shiny. Same with boats, they got a job, I got a job, I'll do mine- they do theirs - we're good to go.

Where is that Chaps?? if he doesn't find time to help here, PM him and see if you can get a reply- he's the most knowledgeable about this entire topic.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

[Chaps]

Hah, being called out from under my rock by the master! I don't have much to add to what Kevin has already said. Nyalic is a potential alternative to Sharkhide. Try researching a comparison between those. If I had an aluminum trailer I would gladly have the chalk issue instead of the rust issue as seen on my steel one and leave it at that but if you look at my boat its easy to see that dull gray is one of my favorite colors too! If you decide to do an acid wash be sure all grease and other grime has been cleaned off first as the acid will only brighten clean metal. In addition to the protective stuff do it outside on a breezy day over a graveled area. Have a hose handy to quickly rinse off stuff that gets splashed in the process.

[emudryj]

emudryj, that trailer has corrosion all over it! That's not healthy, and you should adjust your knowledge base to include aluminum hydroxide 'flowers' that aren't aluminum oxide !

Oooops... I'm sorry... Yes, I came here for advice and help and no, I really do not know the difference between aluminum corrosion, aluminum hydroxide, and aluminum oxide.... i can only assume that if that is corrosion, is bad.
Here are some better close ups
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[URL=http://s274.photobucket.com/user/e ... .jpg[/img][/url]
[URL=http://s274.photobucket.com/user/e ... .jpg[/img][/url]
[URL=http://s274.photobucket.com/user/e ... .jpg[/img][/url]
[URL=http://s274.photobucket.com/user/e ... .jpg[/img][/url]

Ok... so it is corrosion.... Would you mind sharing how or why did it form and if is there a solution for it?


The only problem with a mechanical cleaning of a trailer is the complexity of the parts' shapes means there is a horrendous amount of work to get into the tight places and dis assembly has to be very complete to reach all the areas.

That's good... this trailer is coming almost completely apart since it needs some in depth rebuild, hence the reason to overtake this task now..

Very big job, acid (taken care of with planning) will save hundreds and hundreds of hours. But, then if you don't feel like you're willing to learn to use the stuff- don't- error on the side of caution.

ALWAYS willing to learn!!!! I would not mind doing the acid etching at all, if that is what it takes...

Do look into the chance that a local tanker truck trailer service might do the entire job for you? They use the stuff all the time and as they would be geared up to clean highway tank trailers (then) they'd surely be able to do your boat trailer like it was just a coffee break. Not saying their interested in the work, just worth asking.

There is a place like that... have not been able to get them to tell me over the phone if they would do it, but I can drive there and just ask.
Only reason I abandoned that idea was because a trucker friend mentioned that those truck acid cleaning are on the lighter side and it may take several baths to see a difference

Flitz is so fine a grit that I'd recommend looking for some real world grits before going to Flitz. Flitz is probably 2500 grit or better and you'd want to start in the 80-100 grit class- making a Flitz only job take so long you won't want to consider that work. But the mechanical access issue remains, regardless if you're up to speed on grit sequence yet?
Mmmmm not really... but, would the acid etch save me the grit sequence? and allow me to go from there to the Flitz?

Build a small freshwater tank for the trailer stem and rinse when you pull her out to sit in the parking lot while boating.

Working on that already and part of this project too.

Commonly done on lots of rigs where the owner is informed about salt drying and starting galvanic or crevice site cells. The mill scale was never removed from this set of extrusions and that alone contributes some to the existing poor surface appearance- 99% of manufactures only want the product out the door and neglect long term performance; but there are some who remove mill scale and they're the most advanced in the business usually.

I have no shine product recommendations. I don't care for shine, I prefer dull gray- etched and aged. I like the metal for its natural beauty- that is "in the eye of the beholder". I'm not a "shiny is good" boat builder/owner/driver. I've only washed a car once or twice in my life- if the rain can't clean it up- fine with me, it's job is to move my heavy displacement stern from point A to B, not to be shiny. Same with boats, they got a job, I got a job, I'll do mine- they do theirs - we're good to go.

Where is that Chaps?? if he doesn't find time to help here, PM him and see if you can get a reply- he's the most knowledgeable about this entire topic.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

Thanks again for taking the time to answer this newbie..!!!

[emudryj]

Hah, being called out from under my rock by the master! I don't have much to add to what Kevin has already said. Nyalic is a potential alternative to Sharkhide. Try researching a comparison between those. If I had an aluminum trailer I would gladly have the chalk issue instead of the rust issue as seen on my steel one and leave it at that but if you look at my boat its easy to see that dull gray is one of my favorite colors too! If you decide to do an acid wash be sure all grease and other grime has been cleaned off first as the acid will only brighten clean metal. In addition to the protective stuff do it outside on a breezy day over a graveled area. Have a hose handy to quickly rinse off stuff that gets splashed in the process.

Thanks a lot for taking the time... will look into Nyalic...!!!!