Flats Boat

General boating discussion
RCSO
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Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:37 pm
7

Flats Boat

#1

Post by RCSO »

I am looking for plans for a 16-18' flats boat with cnc cut plans. I have searched and only found a couple of these boats and the builders were not open to selling the plans. If there is enough interest I could have one custom designed.
kmorin
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Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: Flats Boat

#2

Post by kmorin »

Rcso, welcome to the AAB.com Forum, hope you're not a long time member that has posted before and I'm just too old and brain dead to recognize your user name? (!)

In reply to your question about a flats boat- I'll ask on behalf of the Forum if you're referring to the sort of platform or powered raft used to fish the Southern coastal waters of the Gulf and Atlantic states' shores? I was involved in a discussion about this hull form on the Glen-L site some years past. While its not a hull form that used in my area, and not one I'd built in welded aluminum personally, I'm just trying to make sure we're discussing the same type 'name'?

Image

I'm not aware of an NC cut file plans package, but I was in the process of converting the Glen-L package into an NC outline when the OP and I had a parting of ways due to our disagreement over internet protocol. If you're willing to engage in a build here on the AAB.com and to post your work proceeds on Glen-L's site as well (?) I am willing to work with you to help create a set of cut files of one of their designs?

The reason that I'd need the commitment to post here, and @ Glen-L, is;
Glen-L sent me a set of plans (Scooter http://www.boatdesigns.com/16-Scooter-s ... ducts/486/ ) and as to AAB.com; we're using this online space to discuss and explore the build- so this site is entitled to a build thread.

IF you accept the conditions? there is no cost to you for my work - which will not be subject to an timeline/performance standard. You will have to buy a set of plans from Glen-L if understand the description of the boat???

I have drawn boat plans for welded aluminum; but built them almost all myself. I'm interested mainly for our readers here, and @ Glen-L's site for their readers too, but I do have some requirements that need to be agreed and upheld before I could help.

Let me know if this could be an arrangement that you could support (?) and we can move ahead. The reason for the lack of cut files (CNC output with plans) is the few boats of this class that are built in welded aluminum.

The reason that I withdrew from the previous project was the inability of the poster to agree to firm decisions and stick to them!!! it may sound easy to do- but new builders often discover the design helix is very difficult to uphold!

If the designer asks a question and it can't be answered with a firm fact: that designer is stopped from working. If he's stopped from moving forward- the designer has little choice but to move to another project- all because his "client" can't make a decision! Sounds hard to believe but is true - too many times!

I've posted some images of some of my work to confirm my belief that we could produce a design for this class of boat.

Image

one of the sketches of the Texas Scooter flats boat I was working on @ Glen-L.

Image

25' offshore walkaround, single outboard w/kicker

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25' dayboat I/O Merc 140 w/ Alpha 1 drive

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14' outboard "chick skiff"; displacement speed skiff w/ gear motor outboard engine.

While I can't direct you to a cut package for your design***- if you're willing to add the AAB.com forum (and Glen-L if you use their designs?) posts as a commitment in your build: I'm willing to help at no cost as long as the posts appear on the Forum?

*** can't even confirm, yet, that I understand the term or design name correctly?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin
Chaps
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Re: Flats Boat

#3

Post by Chaps »

Kev, if the OP is checking in from the SE a flats boat is a shallow draft v bottom w/low freeboard. Think of the pics you've seen of guides on aft platforms poling their client along in thin water as they stalk bonefish but then when its time to move on they fire up the 200 hp short shaft outboard and cruise at freeway speeds to the next hot spot . . . ;-)
1987 24' LaConner pilothouse workboat, 225 Suzuki
Image
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RCSO
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:37 pm
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Re: Flats Boat

#4

Post by RCSO »

kmorin
Thanks for the welcome. I am primarily a builder of NON ALLOY lobster boats but recently got involved with modifying a Naiad rhib to a work boat. I am enjoying working with aluminum. chad is right I am looking for plans for Florida style flats boat meant to be poled for fly fishing. I do appreciate your offer.
RCSO
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:37 pm
7

Re: Flats Boat

#5

Post by RCSO »

kmorin
I found plans from glen-l for the 18.5 flats flyer. The plans are for stich and glue plywood. How difficult would it be to convert the plans to an aluminum build?
kmorin
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Re: Flats Boat

#6

Post by kmorin »

RCSO, not sure- I'll have to look at that design and see what's implied to convert to aluminum.

Stitch and glue plans usually translate to metal fairly easily (low hours of effort on the designer/drafters' part). It depends on the plans packages' supply of hull panel outlines? Some designs require you to build a set of forms, usually inverted full transverse body sections of the hull, then to "take off" the hull panels from that hull form. Once you have to outline pattern or shapes taken off, (not provided by developed surface software routines on a PC) then; that same form can be used to hold the hull panels at the correct edge to edge orientation while you wire and tape the seams.

In this case the plans give the sections of the formers and lines of the hull but don't give the actual panel outline shapes that could be easily converted to NC tool paths to cut. Therefore that work has to be done by inputting the lines and creating a model that can then have the hull panels unfolded-developed from the original lines.

The second group of wood stitch-n-glue plans, may not be commercially available but in-house to plywood builders (??) would include the outlines of the four or five primary hull panels. This group of plans could be scanned or converted to NC tool paths with pretty low effort.

I'll look at that design's plans and communicate with Glen-L's admin.s and see what the implications are of using their lines for a design conversion to metal and an NC file to cut the boat as a kit?

What kind of time frame do you have for your project? Just trying to see if my time allows a reasonable participation?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai AK
kmorin
RCSO
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:37 pm
7

Re: Flats Boat

#7

Post by RCSO »

Kevin
I am finishing a hull now that should be out the door in June or July. I will then have room to start on this project.
kmorin
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
Posts: 1735
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Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: Flats Boat

#8

Post by kmorin »

RCSO,
I contacted Glen-L's management and they don't want to have to support an NC cut, metal conversion based on their design. So, in regard their design, it would be unethical of me to convert their plans package, against their wishes for this intellectual property.

Another concern is the cut files ownership? It is generally accepted that when a plans package is converted or output to NC files- those files remain the property of the designer. When a client buys the plans AND the cut files (two separate services both for sale) there's a license implied to build one boat from that package. As a plans sales business, obviously they need to protect their products from unauthorized reproduction and having digital files of their plans surely presents a risk of that design being transferred without their permission.

It is my understanding Glen-L acknowledges that any of their clients could make use of their plans to build in metal - but they're not interested in having someone take over the plans and make a conversion, post the build and then they'd have to add support that may result from a published conversion as we'd discussed. (this is one reason I don't sell plans! the support time for new builders is often very high; even for cut kit boats)

This means you could look for another designer's plans package and discuss their stance on agreeing to that plans set being converted to metal/NC cut files, or; you could buy the Glen-L plans and convert them yourself?

I'm not sure that having a new design/plans set would be worth the cost unless you plan to add this line of boats in welded aluminum to your current building business? Then you'd probably justify having a 'new' design done and hold the cut files as your property.

I still offer my help, in any case, to answer questions, give opinions and advice- just not to the extent of a full metal design conversion unless the designer agrees to that going in.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin
RCSO
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:37 pm
7

Re: Flats Boat

#9

Post by RCSO »

Kevin
Thanks for looking in to it for me. My search goes on. Peter
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