What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

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TheGimpCB
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What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#1

Post by TheGimpCB »

Hello All
So I bought this boat just on pictures. I just spent a week in Florida looking at houses and got to see the boat for the first time.
Gentlemen I need some advice on this project. The first thing I did was sell the 1984 johnsons after removing them I realized that the three layers of plywood and fiber glass on the inside of the stern were wet and rotten. And there was a piece of aluminum SCREWED to the stern with what looks like two tubes of 5200. So my first question is What would be the best way to deal with the 36 holes :banghead: My thought would be to cut it out and weld in a new piece. I plan on installing a swim platform/outboard bracket. I realize I need to tie it all in am I on the right track? My other concern is the "windows" are tempered glass with fuel line wrapped around the edges and a bead of silicone stuffed in a 90 with another 90 behind it with self tapping screws. Is this even safe? On the up side the cockpit is 14x8 with 7' under roof and there is very little pitting. I know taking on a 1958 project will have its problems but I already love this boat.
Thank You All for the inspiration I don't move down there for two more months So I have a lot of time to think of the possibilities.
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#2

Post by welder »

Your on the right track, strip it all down and clean to bare metal and lets see what you have.
How does the hull look, inside and out?
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TheGimpCB
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#3

Post by TheGimpCB »

The outside looks good all the way around no pitting or issues. As for the inside I need to remove the floor and all the foam before I will really know what I am dealing with I didn't get that far this trip I did get a few under deck pictures I can see the top of the fuel tank and a bunch of nasty foam. That's the first thing I will remove when I get down there.
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#4

Post by Chaps »

Project boats can be cool, they soak up a lot of money but in the end you have something. Just not sure what you see in that one. I'd keep looking for something worth the effort.
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#5

Post by peterbo3 »

It is probably nowhere near as bad as it looks. Seeing that it had an Inboard with a leg at some stage, there is a good chance that the stringers & transverse frames will be beefed up. The corrosion/gunk appears to superficial. As the earlier replies suggest get the hull stripped out totally & start cleaning it up. Your are probably going to need a combination of chemicals & abrasive pads.
The great beauty of alloy is that virtually everything can be replaced, repaired, beefed up or totally changed easily.

There are some pretty smart fellas like Kevin Morin on here who design & manufacture alloy boats. People who are master welders & alloy fabricators with many years experience. Once you have the hull cleaned out post up more pics & include details of plate thickness, stringer & framing sizes/spacing & some close ups of the welding at various places. Once that is up some good suggestions & advice will flow.

That being said, you have very little deadrise at the stern (possible hard ride but stable at rest), a chicken coop for a wheelhouse & a very spartan interior. It appears to be a fair size boat (10 ft beam?) so you are going to need some ponies (2 x 150?)to get it moving. You will also need a full rewire, electronics, instruments, hydraulic steering & possibly a new wheelhouse. You need to do your sums carefully.
Regards,

Pete in Brisbane
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#6

Post by JETTYWOLF »

I believe I "cringed" a little when you 1st posted that thing on here. Talking about moving to Florida and all.....

Heck, some people love a challenge and misery? And obvious have nine lives and the cash to live them.

I'd rather jus' go fishing. Life is short. And You're doing this in your "New" Florida heat?

You could be easily drifting around in a used or new "boat" sipping a cold one, with a line dangling over the side as an excuse to go.
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#7

Post by TheGimpCB »

Maybe I need to explain my situation a little better. Im 41 and retired thanks to the US NAVY my wife has a great job and I find myself sitting around because my friends all have jobs. I moved to Maryland two years ago for her two year contract with NIH from the Tarpon Springs area where we lived on the Anclote river. I own both a flats boat as well as a 29cc. So no worries about dragging a line and drinking a few. I have commercially fished and stone crabbed in the gulf for years before I moved. I purchased this boat and trailer for the scrap price so I have 2500.00 invested in this project. I realize it looks like junk to some but to me there is something about taking something that is 55 years old and bringing it back to life. I also realize that it will need a lot of money and that's not really an issue im in no great hurry one can only spend so much on boobies and beer. Pasco county has five gentlemen's clubs within two miles of the marina I keep my boats. Like I said before I have never owned an aluminum boat and I like taking on projects that I can learn from. I have seen you guys tear apart and rebuild all kinds of boats/pilothouses so I believe this can be done with this one. After all its only welding on what you want and cutting off what you don't. AAB has been my inspiration that being said Do you guys think the windows are safe or should I cut off the "chicken coop" and start from scratch? Can anyone tell me what's the proper grinding wheel to use to remove the welds I read it somewhere here but I cant find it now. Thank You for all for your advice any help is truly appreciated.
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#8

Post by JETTYWOLF »

You "sort of" asked.
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#9

Post by kmorin »

TheGimpCB, I don't know you, we'll likely never meet, I have no dog in the hunt for your boat, and I'm glad you decided to post on AAB.com home for Welded Aluminum Boats on the web. I will be direct and factual, and that will end up sounding harsh but from my point of view (couple hundred welded boats built) you are not ready to make an accurate call on this boat. I'm not stating to offend, but we've seen several guys here, with much more to work with that still found the recover out of reach for a host of reasons.

I'd recommend you forget recovering this boat, I have not seen the lines fully but I can see several features that lead me to this recommendation.

[First the lines of any boat are the entire foundation of its function, very poorly understood by most owners, but very important. I don't see hull lines that make this shape worth your cost to recover.]

One; the hull has evidently been 'lined' with foam/glass & resin in some manner and form the only way you will recover this fully is by blasting and that will be worth more than the current investment. Next; the corrosion under this type of layer inside a hull is not predictable therefore you will face more than the current value in replacing hull and structural elements because of corrosion you cannot yet see clearly- yet.

The next set of reasons are shown by an illustration. Great-grandfather built a so-so oak china hutch and it was no work of art- but it was OK. Then it got handed down and eventually painted because the joinery was average or less and then painted again and again. Now, if it's stripped and refinished it is still worthless because it started life 'so-so' ho-hum nothing really well joined but we still love his memory.

On the other hand if the original family heirloom were some exotically made 1700 Federalist chest of drawers that happened to get painted and you strip that then have if refinished- well museums will court you for a sale. What I hope to point out is that if the boat wasn't much to begin life it hasn't gained in the meantime.

Do you recall the Striker Aluminum Yacht co? they made an elegantly shaped sport fisherman in the 50'-80' range I think. They're gone but two other companies now exist to buy old Striker hulls and refurbish them and resell as 'new' aluminum yachts. They make some money because the original boat is still well formed, well built and would cost more to build today than to recover and refurbish.

What was under the paint is essentially junk that only Ggrandma could have really cared for and not for the cabinet but for the man. What was left of a poorly maintained Striker? A gem waiting to be reset in a new 'setting'.

Now, you have a poorly shaped boat, this is obvious from how it was treated from the start; the cabin was built by a farmer, with no knowledge of the sea or any remote sense of design. The hull has been redone radically by people using 5200 and bolts! (that is the 6 penny nails in g'grandad's cupboard)

If you have bucks, time and energy to refurb this boat, then you can build one from scratch for less money and have a boat you may be able to resell. When this boat is fully refurbished you will not even remotely get your money back or any labor, your judgement in selecting this project proves that you're not experienced enough to make that judgement as to what is a recoverable metal boat is.

If you have the skills and energy to try to rehab this scrap metal; you've got more than enough of the same to build your own and it will be 100000% more boat when you're done.

Steps to confirm what I predict on the inside, remove the ply/particle board and glass resin and sand blast. If you don't sand blast then you are not remotely serious about recovery. When you pull the junk out, you'll find the metal seriously degraded in many places, now you'll see that you aren't about to recover-you're about to rebuild, meaning you'll have three times the effort to end up with less than if you build your own.

Once you'll take out the liner, then you'll have to blast, then you'll have to replace hull, structural and then rebuild adding the 'new' interior. In new metal you just do it once- go right to step three.

If I'd not seen similar piles of scrap metal for the last four decades owned by people who 'got a deal' maybe I'd be more willing to see the bright side of this boat's past, but its there to see if you've "been there and done that".

Anyway, I hope you came here looking for the truth, your post title indicates you may have an inkling already? This advice is to find a decent design you like, then begin to plan to build and junk the scrap currently masquerading as a boat- sure you can 'beat it to death with hundred dollar bills' and it may float and fish, but why not spend your time on something beautiful instead of something homely?

"A beautiful boat is a joy to behold- forever."

Test a small spot inside the bilge of the hull- all the way clean to bare metal- and see what it's like under the blanket of "metal corrosion padding"?

cheers,
Kevin Morin
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#10

Post by TheGimpCB »

Thanks for the insight obviously I didn't really know what I was getting into. I think I will just stay away from aluminum boats. There is a reason you don't see a lot of them down south. Thank You for the wake up I was lost in the dream.
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#11

Post by JETTYWOLF »

No seeing many down south hasn't got to do with much of anything, other than S. Florida was once a glass boat building capital.

Cheap, NON-native labor, people with alot of $$. And certainly NOT a "working" boat mentality, but rather a "hey LOOK at me mentality", with all that NY, Jewish Deli, money. And what was world class fishing. Before fisherman became terrorists, Pew Foundation targets, and beat to a pulp by the Feds and state.

Areas that have a working boat mentality are more inclined to be accepting of aluminum boats that are more than Grandpa's ole jon-boat leaning against the tree in the back yard.

If you don't know what I mean. Go to the Miami International Boat show in Feb. Check out the nice shiney ones, with some cupholders, carpet and drapes.

Want to see work boats? Head up to Washington. I'm sure the Pacwesters here know exactly when the International work boat show is.

Want to see builder after builder fabricating boats for oil field work, commercial fisherman, as well as Sportsman of all types.

Then search Louisiana aluminum boat builders.

Whole different mentality than Florida. And they like it that way.

My story and I'm stickin to it.

So, whatya gonna do? Spending retirement $$ and time fixing up an ole car or truck can be easier and just as satisfying... :rotfl:


AND BTW KEVIN,
I BELIEVE THAT ADVISE NEEDS TO GO INTO THE AAB.COM HALL OF FAME!
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Any Advice Is Welcome ??

#12

Post by kmorin »

TheGimpCB is sounds like I wasn't all that helpful if you think, after reading it, that you need to avoid welded aluminum alloy boats?

I think they're the best afloat, but as Jettywolf shows in his post, the labor is more, the materials are more, the result is more -so they're overall at the higher end of the market in terms of <30' boats. Once you get larger than 30' the finished interiors of all yachts starts to equalize the hull which becomes a much smaller percentage of the overall value.

Jetty's also right that the higher cost is usually justified by commercial work whether fishing or working- but the low maintenance, if done correctly, is a huge factor is welded boat acceptance. In Fl's market the 'standard' boat is white. That white paint costs more (much more) on a metal boat than on a GRP & deadplants boat so the cost goes up; again. There are markets where bare metal is not sold often, and other markets where everyone gathers around a painted aluminum boat to gawk. (here in AK for example)

But I sure don't want you to think that you can't build your own welded boat. I know dozens of guys who didn't weld, didn't design boats themselves, didn't build plywood dog houses that have designed & built their own welded aluminum boats- so you can too. If you want to. The only thing stopping you is your own imagination.

The matter is purely inclination for you since you have the resources and time, and skills to do the remodel boat's work- then you have 85% of what you'll need to build your own welded metal boat.

It may seem a boat by correspondence is not realistic? But I'd say if you want knowledge then there's not much that stop you. I taught myself in the 1970's/80's and there is a great deal of information published since then to help. If you don't want to draw the boat? There are lots of reliable designers who will provide either stock plans or draw to your requirements. If you want to have that design, stock or one-off, cut there are plenty of services where the plans can be turned into cut pieces all marked and what you have to do is 'put it together' and they come with a bottom jig to hold the pieces together while you tack and weld.

There are full kit boats, ready to buy and be assembled.

Learning to weld aluminum MIG is not that difficult with today's power supplies and MIG guns, and there are both manufacturing company training programs, as well as local collegiate training either of which will allow you to learn well enough to practice and weld on your own boat.

Learning to TIG weld, if you were to choose is more time consuming since it is most often a two handed weld more like gas welding of days past, but still only a matter of practice. There are welding specialty i'net sites where new welders are guided, advised and mentored. One young man went from learning on that site to being a pure artist with a TIG torch and builds custom welded bicycle frames now. He's an example of "learning-by-web". Another young man I know personally, used a series of online illustrations as some additional guidance for his practice sessions and now has his own welding and bass boat customization shop in GA. He's barely old enough to vote and he did most of his learning by practicing in the garage with a minimal featured power supply.

There are always critical skills in most communities in the USA, by that I mean anything you need done on your boat as you build that you don't want to do personally can often be hired from someone within a reasonable distance. So you can hire the 'Pro from Dover' when something critical is required, you still have to 'shop around' but there are full time welders in aluminum shops doing

All the forming, rolling, bending, and any machining can be hired out within driving distance and this only amounts to a few percent of the boat. So you don't have to become a Master Machinist Mate with 30 years in the ship yard to build a skiff; you're not rolling the metal you'd buy it from the mill representative.

Building for yourself is mainly being able to find a sequence of the build,something you're given with most kits and with a good set of plans. Further, sourcing the various parts and pieces in today's world is so simple because all you do is a Browser Search and shortly you'll have 50 choices.

So while I'm glad you're not necessarily going to pour money into the other hull you've shown? I do regret if my remarks have caused you to shy away from welded aluminum boats. Some unfortunate boaters drown every year- but that doesn't mean all boats are unsafe; so in my opinion one poorly maintained metal boat shouldn't be allowed to speak for the entire fleet!

Why not at least explore building your own boat before you steer clear of welded aluminum? It's just learning, you can always stop with a new education in boat building and pursue some other pastime?

cheers,
Kevin Morin
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Re: What Have I Got Myself Into? Any Advice Is Welcome

#13

Post by goatram »

I had a dream and I saw the light and finished my dream. Some Might not think it's pretty; But I do.

When I saw my Hull on CL I PM'ed Kevin and asked a few questions as well as Bruce and Brandon at Coldwater Boats. I have something I made and it fishes well. I am happy. Wished I had built it from Scratch though. You will always find fault with someone elses design and work. Just Saying! And Thanks for serving even if it was as a navy boy! :sarge: Been there, done that, and I too collect my retirement +. :beer: :thumbsup:
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