16' aluminum skiff

[welderbob]

May's Special.

I believe Aluminum Dreamer started this idea. I threw the idea of building one of these out there to one of my regular customers. He told me he just sold his wooden one, said he love to have an aluminum one. A sketch , some notes and a phone call to Bill Lincoln and a basic cutting file was created. Yes there was also some interest here on AAB. At this point I'm not quite sure how much there going to be. You could go crazy finishing one of these off. We haven figured out all the detail yet. Not sure what I want to do for a rub rail. Do we weld on a small half pipe or use a pvc rub rail?. Probably would be nice to have some removable floor boards. Then there's rod holders, bottom paint etc.
Then there's the foam verse no-foam. I'm a no -foam kind of guy, but on this one I might fill the back seats and bow compartment. Then there is the real argument, air is much cheaper than foam.

The cut material has been sitting on the floor for almost two weeks. Most of my crew has been working on a big ferry project here on Long Island. Nice job, installing a rescue crane and rescue boat. We were suppose to do this over the winter, but the winter wasn't so nice,than the boat go stuck in the shipyard., now the rush is on. A few more day and we'll be done and can get back to this project. Work on the RockSalt 275 has also been at a stand still.

So the majority of the boat is 3/16" 5086H116. The gunnels are 5052 and the seats are 1/8" 5052. I'll post details are we go. Boat has a 6' beam and is 16' long.

I'm thinking I'll start with a 25hp Honda for power ans see how that goes.

Welderbob

[welder]

I would go for the 1/2 Pipe to keep the cost down.
Are you doing any angle iron on the bottom and what are your thoughts on beefing up the flat bottom floor/deck?

By the way......

Way cool project.

[welder]

And by the way again...

Get back to work on that RS so we can see some BAD BOY EAST COAST ALLOY.


Oh crud, can I "Cheerlead" for the Rocksalt or only for Pacific?

[goatram]

cool project that I will follow. I am interested in the air over foam for floatation.

Bob gave me the plans for a 12' skiff that I want to increase to 14' as well as raise the gunnels and the transom. A 25HP is what I hope to power mine as well. Half Pipe for the Cool Factor not PVC is my 2 cents.

[welderbob]

When we flip it over we're going to put a 2 x 5 channel down the middle as the "keel" and 2 pieces of 1 x 2 channel as running strakes. I guess we're putting a piece of half pipe for the rub rail.
Welderbob

[MacCTD]

Looks nice, what is the cost?

[capesteve]

BOOM! How much will that boat weigh?

[welderbob]

The real answer will come when we're done. My guess right now is 500lbs.

[aluminumdreamer]

Cool craft! Curious to see the finished product.

[JETTYWOLF]

Welderbob,

at this point I'll "trade ya" for a 26 Pacific and a silver paper weight.

a 50HP...for me, my azz is large, I may also need adjustable/manual tabs installed. NO Honda, for me
Choose any other color motor, except BLACK.

I love how this one looks (AUS) Seems similar
[BBvideo 560,340]http://youtu.be/dtppo7NUrQs[/BBvideo]
-Wide Gunnels
-covered bow
-of course aluminum deck...wood is a NO GO.

You need to learn and run a Video camera and plan out the shots and use them for promo's.....Youtube is completely FREE!
It's the best thing I have ever done, biz & Blog wise.

[downline]

This 16 seemed smaller to me than 16 when I viewed the video. I just had a 16 plan from MBK get re-quoted by Yarde metals to supply materials and cutting and they went from 1800 to 2900 dollars. Perhaps they misquoted the first time but this seemed excessive for inflation.

Are there plans for this 16? Looks like what I would modify the plan I have to achieve this. Who is a source of 5086 and 5052 in the NY metropolitan area?

I am coming off a neck surgery that left me partially paralyzed last July. Just now getting back in the saddle and practicing on aluminum so I can get my skiff done before winter shuts me down here on the Hudson River. Downline

[welderbob]

There isn't a video for this boat. This is the first one of this model we are building. I do have a cutting file for some of this. The next boat will have a few more parts.
Yarde bases its price the amount of aluminum/ibs used. You really need to look at the cutting file nestings. Without looking at the cutting files you could have a large amount of "drops".Think of it this way; your 16' may be being cut out of a 8 x 24' sheet. depending on the beam you could have a piece that is 2' wide by 16,plus a piece almost 8' x 8' . .Now do the same thing with the sides. If you have a bunch of smaller pieces and you spec'ed them out of 5052, that's a whole another sheet. Sometimes it pays to move some of those 5052 parts to the 5086 sheet. It could also be the sales guy who quoted the nestings, the CAD guy just does the nesting. I'd be happy to talk to my sales guy, there are times where I have had to guide the sales guy through the process.
You could ask Pierce Aluminum to quote it. They are not my favorite company to deal with, but they do have a waterjet. Call me before you use them.
Welderbob

[downline]

How do I get your number? Makes sense about the amount of waste and I will do what is the best value at this point. I have only talked with Yarde because they were the only company I found with a water jet cutter. I guess I looked at something else in the video I saw. I appreciate your help. D

[welderbob]

There is a definite different in the price between waterjet and high def plasma cutting. Yarde metal has both. There plasma is much bigger than there waterjet. In very general terms,plasma adds about .25 cents/lb.,waterjet is a much slower process so its a bit more money. In my opinion plasma is fine for what we do, if I had my druthers I would buy a router.just for the versatility.

welderbob

[JETTYWOLF]

That video is a aussie boat that I've always admired.....NOT Bob's boat. I put it up to just show that the bow has a piece over it. And wide gunnels, and that matters for what I do. Rod holders in the gunnels! And wide to sit on, too.

Of course I can't even cut a wood board straight. So, my whole, soul brain & body, doesn't think anything but fishing and making $$ fishing.
So sorry to confuse anyone

"I fish there fore I am"

[downline]

Don't be concerned at times I am easily confused. I have wanted to find any quality aluminum boat builders that I could here in the North East, but they seem to be scarce as hens teeth. Now I bump into welderbob and wonder why I have struggled so to find anyone. Perhaps no one affiliated with NON ALLOY will ever say a kind word around here about Al. I went all the way to Louisiana to drop in on some Al boat builders to see and learn. Kevin Morin has been wonderful but a hop to AK is probably not happening. Since I live on the Hudson River I am excited to build a tiller skiff that can live on the choppy Hudson and not cost a fortune to fish with. Glad I got back to this forum. D

[welderbob]

Finally starting to catch up and get back to shop projects. We added bottom stringers. The center is a 2 x 5 channel and the outsides are 1 x 2 channel. A little welding and a half pipe for the rub rail and we should be done.

Welderbob

[kmorin]

Bob,

are these 6061-T6 Am Standard- structural channels or are they pressed 5052/5086/5083 sheet formed to a 2"x 5" & 1"x2" ?
If you could take a minute to reflect on the channel choices to stiffen the bottom it would help us all to follow the reasoning for this particular choice.

Not sure from the photo; will the channels be welded full length, or stitched or chained??? Just making sure we can all 'see' into the build of this skiff. Do you feel/expect/anticipate the centerline channel will have any negative effect on the fair flow to the wheel as it's not tapered aft and nears the transom full profile?

Will your motor mount hold the cav plate of the outboard about 1-1/4" below the bottom plane? Or another dimension? Wonder if the prop will ventilate in a turn as she's flat bottom, what angle of heel do you anticipate?

If and when time allows; just more curiosity from another skiff builder.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

[welderbob]

The channels are 6061 aluminum Association channel. They were chosen because they are a little lighter and it is the size the customer wanted on the bottom. This boat is a basic copy of one that he had in plywood. It was easier to use these than try and bend some flat stock. This boat will be put on a trailer at the end of a day. The channels end up being continuously welded to the bottom.If they were skip welded they would fill with water. If there is any negative impact from channel running full profile back we'll look at changing it. The motor will be a little trial and error.

Welderbob

[welder]

Bob, Thanks for all of the fed back on your builds, we know some of these can be mind boggling.

[JETTYWOLF]

Don't be concerned at times I am easily confused. I have wanted to find any quality aluminum boat builders that I could here in the North East, but they seem to be scarce as hens teeth. Now I bump into welderbob and wonder why I have struggled so to find anyone. Perhaps no one affiliated with NON ALLOY will ever say a kind word around here about Al. I went all the way to Louisiana to drop in on some Al boat builders to see and learn. Kevin Morin has been wonderful but a hop to AK is probably not happening. Since I live on the Hudson River I am excited to build a tiller skiff that can live on the choppy Hudson and not cost a fortune to fish with. Glad I got back to this forum. D

Ya just weren't looking in the right places. Yes, now you be in the right place and Welderbob is HERE!
Yer neck O' the woods.
Yeah, I could do a tour of Aluminum boat builders in Louisiana with ya. Almost as fun as fishing.....or is that catching in La.?
It's Catching, most of the time.

It's okay. NO ONE here in Jack-ville Florida ever says a kind word about aluminum boats either. I had mine for over a year and a fellow fishing guide and a independent auto mechanic I have used many a time, told a mutual friend. "Don't know why Dave bought such a big RIVETED TOGETHER, aluminum boat."

Talk about funny shet

[kmorin]

Bob, flat bottom skiffs, at least in my experience, tend to roll up on the chine instead of heel down, so the outboard does tend to get a little close to the surface when turning tight- at speed. So a higher profile bottom element tends to aerate the prop unless tapered, but it depends on how the skiff is handled and the speeds of operation before its an issue.

I leave all bottom rails to fill and they all have open vents or no weld areas along the end plates' at the hull- near the stern end; to empty and they do in a couple boat lengths, this avoids the cost of welding full length which provided no gain to the structure and is a pain to add. Not talking keel cooled hulls where extrusions are pressure tested to give glycol galleys for coolant flow.

By tapering most longs 1-2 feet aft and 5-8 forward we've found they will work fine, adding to the structure but not making too much air flow that might fiddle with prop 'traction'. Also as we end the forward strakes on the bottom if they're not all the way to the chine we 'donut' them to avoid the weld around the bow end creating a hard spot that cracks out in pounding or trailering. This has been a great source of repair revenue over the years- builders leaving the forward end of extrusion rails welded without the inside or outside 'doubler pad' to dissipate the impact stresses over a larger area allowing the hull panel to support the load at much less loading than point loading. But channels will be much less likely to have this failure than a sharpened point angle extrusion ending in the 'field'. Still the corners of the channels forward is a 'sharp' turn and they do break out because the 5086 is embrittled to some degree and all up tensile is lowered at the HAZ. So by banging on the trailer when lashed down OR by banging in a chop continually, the corners of the channels forward may be subject plate cracks- even in 0.187 5086 H-116.

I used a 'box' rib system made of folded sheet, usually 1/8" bent to 1/2" radius because that was our default nose bar die. These would form a box (trapezoid) with the bottom and had a very large limber welded under the rib to the hull. The side ribs were the same folded shapes, and sat atop the transverse, inverted U of the bottom ribs. This allowed the box form to bin the fish (commercial skiffs), the ribs are very stiff for the wt, and they allow the fisherman to walk on the bottom ribs (flat tops) when the skiff had a couple hundred salmon in the bottom.



One of my 'students' net skiffs copying my design and building elements. The ribs here are bent with a fine nose bar than I used the but work results in the same rib/box transverse. The topsides frames are fit atop the horizontal. Every piece of metal in the picture has a specific use and function for salmon set net work.



Full set of ribs in the 6' chine to chine cambered bottom with 34" sides and lots of lean/flam/"flair" to the topsides. Bottom warp increase from transom to bow and becomes very slight V and the fore deck covers the V as its not a walking surface to work nets. 2"x3" 'hull stiffener' used to line the limber holes in each rib. Boat is circa 1984-5'ish not sure on this skiff.

Lots of ways to build skiffs, I look forward to some 'finished' pictures; when time allows.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

[aluminumdreamer]

Thanks for sharing this stuff guys. I have a question for Kevin regarding the boat shown... Would you build the floor bracing as shown in the above picture if you were going to then cover (weld in) it with a sheet of aluminum for a flat floor?

Thanks

Nate

[downline]

I had the good fortune to visit Bob at his shop on Monday. I liked the 16 foot skiff layout, and obvious sturdiness, that I am looking at switching from the 16 I had plans for, and building his design. I took pictures but even after cropping they are to big for this forum, so until I figure that out I will just say I like the concept and simplicity of Bob's 16 and believe there is much that can be done by a builder to make it exactly what they want in a shallow water skiff. D

[kmorin]

Nate, no; the ribs here are to bin the salmon, stop them from flowing fore and aft when still in the skiff and to make the surfaces all 'net smooth' the test is to drag old net or nylon hose over the surfaces and if they hang, its too rough or poorly shaped for a net skiff.

There were my version of a net smooth skiff with good strength to carry the 4k to 8k lb of salmon these skiffs may be called on to haul. They also keep the interior surfaces easier to pressure wash clean when the boat is done for the fishing period.

For decks I'd use other framing methods, not bothering with boxed in, radius corners and all, and the huge limber holes are to equalize water fast to keep from pushing the bow or stern down because the bilge wasn't even. These ribs are way to much work to build and then deck over, there's no need to go to this level of fitting and fully welded interlocking surfaces and then put the deck on top.

I have put a deck on this type of skiff, years later when modifying one of these net skiffs for purely recreational use, I've decked them but not if the skiff would have a deck as original building design.

cheers,
Kevin Morin
Keani,AK