So I want to build

[doughnut]

I have decided that I want to try (operative word "try") to build an AL Skiff. I have access to a Lincoln Power Mig 350 with a cobra gun etc. What I dont have is AL welding experience. I have fiddled around with it, built a (sad, sad) pilothouse for fun. The panel deflection etc is just crazy. Anyhow, I am thinking a kit from the Metal Boat Kit guys. Its a 20 foot open skiff. Am I nuts to try this? Ideas, advice. My thought is that this, and another would be "practice" boats that would end up being used as work boats. I want to end up building something more substantial. What are you welders thoughts on this? Books? Videos? Community college welding class? Thanks in advance. Please tell me if I am getting in over my head.

[aluminumdreamer]

I am no welding expert or anything, but I think it's a great idea. I would really like to do the same thing once I get good with my new welder. I looked at plans on bodenboatplans.com they have a cool 17 foot center console that they say is great first time builder boat. The only thing I was thinking was that aluminum isn't super cheap, so learning on a boat may not be the best place to learn. I was going to get any kind of scrap that I could come up with to practice my cutting, fitting, and welding on.
Best of luck to you, if you do go ahead and do this make sure to post lots of pictures.
Nate

[21ftcc]

http://www.piercealuminum.com/marine.php

did you try here?

[doughnut]

http://www.metalboatkits.com/walkaround ... ound20.htm


This is the boat I am contemplating.

[CTMD]

I do a lot of work with Plate Alloy Australia (www.platealloy.com) who specialize in kitsets for the home builder. While its not relevant to you (unless you want a bit of a holiday) they run a boat building course for their potential clients. When the course isn't viable they recommend taking a welding course at your local community college (we call them tafes). Knowing how to handle and more importantly set up your welder can make a huge difference to the final product.

[Chaps]

The PM350 is a great machine, a little tricky to get dialed in at first. If you get a cut file from metalboatkits and have the parts cut local to you there in socal be sure to get the fall off scrap from the outfit that cuts your plate. You'll have enough scrap pieces to do a lot of practice welding. The pulse modes on that welder help to keep distortion down btw because the heat build-up is reduced. Can the person who owns the machine help you get familiarized with the 350?

[JETTYWOLF]

Not that I know crappola about it.......but would love to build my own small inshore "dingy" type some day too.
You'll need a shop, and I bet some tool'age, so I see $$ for the kit, just the start of the overall expensive, not to mention, ""OPP'S"" that always end up costing in the long run.

I have the shop. But no tools or a welder, so you're better off than I. Plus a dad that loves to build stuff with 2-wheels.

Keep us updated on your education and/or decision. Love hearing about "projects".

[welderbob]

I admirer your ambition, you have a few hurdles to over come. First you have to learn how to weld and not just a few pieces together on a bench. Although possible to Mig, you may want to consider TIG welding the tank. You will need some help handling the big sheets of aluminum (A bottom plate could weight plus 200lbs) You also need some indoor space big enough build the boat.
I'd try the welding first and then order a cut 12' kit from Metal boat kits. Order the files and have it cut locally.

Bob

[doughnut]

The PM350 is a great machine, a little tricky to get dialed in at first. If you get a cut file from metalboatkits and have the parts cut local to you there in socal be sure to get the fall off scrap from the outfit that cuts your plate. You'll have enough scrap pieces to do a lot of practice welding. The pulse modes on that welder help to keep distortion down btw because the heat build-up is reduced. Can the person who owns the machine help you get familiarized with the 350?

Hi Chaps, Chris, all the "Smart Guys" ! LOL

Anyhow, The guy with the welder can show me a bit, I can get the Lincoln guy as well. The thing is, the guy who has the welder isnt a AL welder. However, he also has a big router table, so I was thinking about cutting the plate here so as to get all the scrap etc. I have a location as well. (an area next to one of my shops where I intend to put up a three sided Shrink structure. I am totally out of my league, but I'm not in a hurry. Of course, I dont want to spend 100K on a 20K boat! The idea is to end up with 4 boats for a lodge, then build "my" boat for local. (I should be 104 by then at the rate this is progressing) I think the idea of the little kit first may be a good one, or getting some same thickness materials to practice the techniques and tacking. The tiny tacks they talk about are apparently some alchemical myth.

[Chaps]

The guy has a PM350 and doesn't weld aluminum? Thats like hiring the best looking hooker in town to mow your lawn . . .

[doughnut]

The guy has a PM350 and doesn't weld aluminum? Thats like hiring the best looking hooker in town to mow your lawn . . .

You must know my buddy Brad. . . . . . .

[21ftcc]

Man is the world getting that bad hookers are hired to mow lawns? Well what number do I call, my grass is getting uneven.

[skypoke]

I was in your shoes once myself. I bought a set of plans from a good designer and had my parts plasma cut. Recognized my weakness in welding (had never, even once, welded alum) so bought a Powermig with Python gun. Did just what was suggested, had a ton of offcut/scrap and practiced on that. The boat's going on five years old now, and zero problems after being run pretty dang hard so I guess we were successful. This is a complex boat, a planing cat with house and cabin, lots of offsets.

Couple key issues. The powermig manual is less than useless. You will need a Lincoln rep willing and experienced with this rig to help get her dialed in. It's not easy to get the settings optimized but once you do it's katy bar the door. Lincoln also offers a pretty inexpensive 4-5 day school in various locations. They will customize your instruction to the material/machine. That's what I'd do if I didn't have a real savvy rep available.

Good fitup is essential. You'll play the devil in trying to freehand cut accurately enough. My designer was Roger Hill with Chris Tucker (CTMD). I'd STRONGLY suggest paying the money for a precut kit or at least a design which is set up for plasma/router cutting. The typical joint in our boat was the two inside edges of 3-4 mm aluminum which hit in the inside corners, leaving a little 3mm square to be welded. We rarely saw any error at all in these fitups, these guys plans are dead nuts on, mind-boggingly accurate. You need a designer who is actually experienced in producing plans/cut files. Not one who says they can do it, but one who has. I've heard some horror stories....

I'd suggest buying a book called Boatbuilding with Aluminum by Steven Pollard. Any bookstore has it, as do the amazonians. That'll help you out immensely in learning how to manage distortion/shrinkage.

Go for it bro. It ain't brain surgery. You've got some good resources available to you, just find a good designer. Building this boat is right up there at the top of most rewarding things I've ever done. Plus I got a fine, fine boat that I never could or would have afforded for short money and sweat.

Chuck

[doughnut]

I was in your shoes once myself. I bought a set of plans from a good designer and had my parts plasma cut. Recognized my weakness in welding (had never, even once, welded alum) so bought a Powermig with Python gun. Did just what was suggested, had a ton of offcut/scrap and practiced on that. The boat's going on five years old now, and zero problems after being run pretty dang hard so I guess we were successful. This is a complex boat, a planing cat with house and cabin, lots of offsets.

Couple key issues. The powermig manual is less than useless. You will need a Lincoln rep willing and experienced with this rig to help get her dialed in. It's not easy to get the settings optimized but once you do it's katy bar the door. Lincoln also offers a pretty inexpensive 4-5 day school in various locations. They will customize your instruction to the material/machine. That's what I'd do if I didn't have a real savvy rep available.

Good fitup is essential. You'll play the devil in trying to freehand cut accurately enough. My designer was Roger Hill with Chris Tucker (CTMD). I'd STRONGLY suggest paying the money for a precut kit or at least a design which is set up for plasma/router cutting. The typical joint in our boat was the two inside edges of 3-4 mm aluminum which hit in the inside corners, leaving a little 3mm square to be welded. We rarely saw any error at all in these fitups, these guys plans are dead nuts on, mind-boggingly accurate. You need a designer who is actually experienced in producing plans/cut files. Not one who says they can do it, but one who has. I've heard some horror stories....

I'd suggest buying a book called Boatbuilding with Aluminum by Steven Pollard. Any bookstore has it, as do the amazonians. That'll help you out immensely in learning how to manage distortion/shrinkage.

Go for it bro. It ain't brain surgery. You've got some good resources available to you, just find a good designer. Building this boat is right up there at the top of most rewarding things I've ever done. Plus I got a fine, fine boat that I never could or would have afforded for short money and sweat.

Chuck

Chuck,

Your boat (type) is where I am headed ultimately. Roger and Chris are great resources. I am gonna do (i think) a couple or 3 of the Vee hulls above for the lodge. By then, I will have achieved just enough "expertise" to get myself into troule on a larger, multihull project. Actually, you and Jeff got me started on this idea some time ago.

[aluminumdreamer]

I just got "Boatbuilding with Aluminum" by Stephan F. Pollard a couple of days ago. If this book isn't inspirational I don't know what is. I have not read through the whole thing yet, but it seems to have alot of useful stuff for the first time boat builder. I would like to someday build a small alloy boat for clamming, lobstering, fishing, etc.. This book instantly made me feel like it is possible, I can't wait to cut my boat apart this winter and do some serious improvements.

This book talks all the about the necessary tools needed, the different alloys, and construction. I feel like even if I don't ever build a boat, this book was a good buy just so I know what went into building my boat.

One other thing this book talks about is all the advantages of an alloy boat. It is a great argument for the f-glass dip sticks that were talking smack a while back.

Nate.

[keith]

Pollard has a web site www.specmar.com with about 40 boats on it that you can buy cnc files for. Built one of his boats about three years ago. Having all the parts cut for you was very nice.