Props are not Safe.

[amfboats]

I also feel sorry for the young guy that was run over by the prop, every time I here of an incident like this I cringe. I think it has always being water skiers that I hear it happening to.

We are seeing more and more people that haven't grown up around boats come into boating, and boating suppliers are making it easier to operate a boat with out the skill base. Like you could go and buy a joy stick controlled 50ft launch with auto pilot that will drive it better than you ever could. Skyhook mode to hold it in one spot like only a very skilled skipper could do and trim tabs to even out the ride. I hear of people bringing that 50ft boat up to your private water ways home then chopping all your fingers off on your Jetty,not good. they just haven't learned enough about boats yet to handle such a big unforgiving craft.

You cant beat starting out in a small dinghy and learning boating skills right from the start, learning to level the load in a small boat rather than using tabs, learning how to slow down and approach another boat or even the beach. Learning that loading is critical to safe boating. Learning how to climb in and out of the boat. learning how to hold the boat launch and retrieve. Then navigation learning to use a compass and land marks and not to relie on GPS navigation.

The reality is you have put together the money to buy a boat, you want the best you can afford to full fill the biggest dream you can make reality. Fair enough. When I sell to a first time boat buyer I keep telling them to just take it slowly wait till the ramp is quiet and you are not under pressure, and practice simple boating maneuvers with a floating stick. Hey don't go to sea until you happy that you are proficient on the controls. My Fist boat was a 8ft sailing rowing motor dinghy. The second was a Zodiac Futura with a 30hp. And all of sudden I am the skipper and all the responsibility was on me. I had a crew to concern for and had to watch the weather and tides. I had to get divers and water skiers on board safely and I had to think hard about that prop and where it was.

I think horses for courses, in NZ the surf life savers in there ribs wouldn't dream of running the boat without a prop guard, but they do robb performance, well they do if you want to protect to the extent of a surf life boat. I don't know much about alternatives that don't robb performance,maybe they are out there. And if you thought it was a lot safer with a guard would you maybe not take so much care to keep the prop a safe area?

Man alive if I think back to all the near misses I have with all my outdoor activities, cars, bikes, boats kayaks you name it they all provide thrills and spills. I have been very lucky. Had the outcome of these spills been bad I would most of the time been at fault. I cant see that the product was to blame.

On the other hand I see boats being sold for purposes I don't believe they are fit for. If you came to grief in a product you thought was more capable than it turned out to be maybe that is a case. and if the product has a design defect that makes it unsafe then yes the manufacture or designers need to stand behind it.

You bought the boat, you also need to own it.

[Polywave]

Thanks Bevan for that enlightening reply. Personally, I feel you are addressing what I feel is the most effective means to reduce boating accidents, giving the boat owner an opportunity to gain experience in a safe way.
Obviously, if any of the boat operators in the forementioned accidents knew their actions would lead to maming their friends they would not have made those choices. It saddens me to think of the torment they are going to live with for the rest of their lives. I wish it would have been avoided.
Poly

[welder]

I'm telling y'all , ya CAN'T FIX STUPID.
Let's see ...The guy that picked up his PUSH MOWER to TRIM THE HEDGE and cut his fingers off
The woman that bought HOT COFFEE at The golden arches , put the cup of HOT COFFEE BETWEEN HER LEGS and proceeded the scorch her crotch
The guy I worked with that I told [ in front of 4 witnesses ] DON'T TRY TO PICK THAT UP WE"LL USE THE BACK HOE and what did he do ...sued us for a back injury , Tried moving the tree when I turned to signal the Back Hoe in.
The guy I knew in the Iron workers that was told for THREE YEARS of apprenticeship school , DON'T STICK YOUR FINGER IN A HOLE, EVER , well he has 9 fingers now.
The guy we picked up at the Lake that poured a GALLON of GAS on a brush pile at the lake , waited about FIVE MINUTES to light it ...YES the fumes had him surrounded , he is still alive but aint pretty.
A friend I had in High school worked at a Pallet Factory , a board got stuck in the Machine so what did he do ...Stuck his upper torso , Head first INTO the Auto nailer/Press , wiggled around hit the safety bypass and stepped on the trigger and guess what ? his head was smashed down to 4" and NAILED .
I played TARZAN when I was 9 years old , fell from the rope 20' , you should have heard the ulna and radia SNAP . my parents never even thought of suing the rope manufacture.
When I was 19 I was KILLED on a Yamaha motor cycle , maybe I should have sued Yamaha and Chevrolet . Yamaha for selling me the bike and Chevy for t-boning me . FYI, many years of riding experience prier to accident .
When I was 3 a kid pushed me out of a Parked Ford truck and I broke my Collar bone , my parents should have sue Ford for letting me get pushed over the side of the Ford by a big kid.
My Uncle was showing me how to do COOL TRICKS with my bike when I was a kid and guess what ? He crashed and broke his ankle . He should have sued The bike manufacture , Those BASSTURDS made him break his ankle but it was a cool crash.
My Brother in Law was showing my Nephew how to ride a SKATE BOARD , guess what ? ANKLE #2 whis I could have seen the crash. He could have sued the manufacture.

Dude , the list goes on and on and most of the above is me and my Family and yes it's all true . If you want the family contact numbers PM me and I will get them for you.

This is what WE mean when when say things like "You can't FIX STUPID" or Mentally Challenged . In other words , Sh!t Happens.


And yes , I do feel sorry for STUPID people and again , I do feel bad for the guy that got his leg cut off BUT the person at the wheel of that boat has 100% responsibility of EVERYONE aboard that Vessel Same as if YOU ran a child over with YOUR Car . Does the Kids parents sue FORD because the FORD fan over their kid . NO they come after your back side.

People do these frivolous lawsuits to the BIG companies because they will settle out of court most of the time for big bucks because it costs even MORE to fight it in court.
I think it's a SAD WORLD we live in when people can't or WONT be RESPONSIBLE for themselves , it always has to be someone else s fault .

So , who wants to go PARACHUTING with me next week right after bungee jumping ?

[Polywave]

Holy cow Lester, I can see why you have the perception that people are common sense challenged.

I can see also how it looks as though the injured are trying to get money from manufacturers. Maybe they are. I think also that people are trying to get manufacturers to re-design their products so they are safer for people that just refuse to follow the safety features provided to them.
For example, the guy that defeated the safety switch and climbed into the pallet nailer. That product can be re-degsigned so that it takes two hands on two buttons to turn it on, not just one footswitch. The company using it can institute a procedure requiring two people to be present at this machine at all times during operation. A lockout feature that is used by electricians could be used.
Maybe if these simple ideas were implemented, that guy would be alive today.

[welder]

That pallet nailer now takes two hands and a foot to operate [ Jasper Indiana ] and yes Poly, some things can be made safer or even totally safe [Like taking LAWN DARTS off the market] man those things were a thrill a minute or how about CLICKER CLACKERS , remember, the two plastic balls on string .....Bade idea what blind kids , off the market .

but seriously , the man had his leg cut off and that really suks and there was a diver that was run over about two years ago in Florida. those are the two Prop accidents that I know of. Now do ya wanna talk about cars ? they have been made safer BUT if you don't WEAR the seat belt , what good it is . MANY THOUSANDS OF MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN DIE EVERY YEAR and it make me sick to watch these STUPID people that breed and vote drive around or should I say TRY to drive .

I really like it when their on the phone and THEY screw up BUT it's MY FAULT .

I can tell you this Poly , you are talking to some of the most safety conscious people around here on this forum but we are getting tired of watching people doing stupid things and GETTING PAYED FOR IT .

[amfboats]

LOL here are two topical news links today to this discussion in New Zealand

http://www.3news.co.nz/Irate-man-says-C ... um=twitter

http://www.wanganuichronicle.co.nz/loca ... d/3954699/

[Seefood Man]

I have to say that I am sick and tired of people that use common sense, have pay to for those that don't have it or use it.
Tuff crap to the libs that think that the gov or world owes them protection and a living.

[Daddy'O]

Is it really my fault?

The Alligator had previously established homestead rights to the swamp by living there and making improvements to suit its needs. When you went swimming in the alligator's home, you were trespassing without compensating the alligator and it had the right to defend its property. In this case, I think you were clearly the aggressor and thus it was your fault. The alligator would be in the right to sue you for any damages you might have caused walking through his swamp. I think the alligator may be able to prove that the blood from your arm drew in some predator fish that ate some of the alligator's food supply and that compensation is in order.

That's one way to argue against my misfortune, but this is my thinking:

When the State of Louisiana began regulating alligators through their Fish & Game division the alligators lost all rights and became State property. So the alligator cannot sue me. And since the State has full authority and regulates all aspects of said alligator, the State is in the alligator business. Specific hunting regulations are in place to protect the alligator to ensure reproduction of new alligators with the newborns having the same rights as the adult alligators. So I would build my case on the grounds of the State of Louisiana as being a manufacturer of alligators. These alligators are a very dangerous product as I can attest with my missing arm. So I want a large monetary settlement, a public safety awareness campaign, and a safety committee established to work solely on designing a safer alligator.

You do realize I was kidding?

Wayne

[Seefood Man]

"safety committee established to work solely on designing a safer alligator"

All states have committees for that, however, getting anything done requires pulling teeth.

[Daddy'O]

LMAO!

Wayne

[Daddy'O]

Daddy'O you're right. After thinking it over, I realized I DO have an interest in the outcome of the court case, otherwise I wouldn't have replied. So I retracted what I said and reposted.

1. I am NOT adamant for manufacturers and have never implied I was. But I am adamant about the concept that product designers should design their products to be safe, and they should re-design them when it's discovered they are harming others.
2. Calling those less intelligent than oneself common sense challenged is a thin disguise. It's still demeaning to them, and condescending. The fact is the vast majority of the boating accident's that occur directly involve young adults, and they are inexperienced not common sense challenged. Do you remember when you were young? I wish I could go back and rethink/redo plenty of decisions I made when I was a teenager.
3. I am glad to hear you're a safety nerd . I'm one too. I've been on the safety committee for the company I work for that had automated production equipment, maybe similar to the equipment Ichaber works on. Safety was a top priority for the CEO of this company and the injury rate was monitored. One woman on the committee didn't have time to devote to the committee, but she wanted to be perceived as a caring person so she joined. She was totally ineffective at reducing the injury rate and somewhat effective at increasing it with the can't idiot proof copout. I, on the other hand, am proud to point out I improved the personal safety of the production personel by insisting on implementing reasonable safety measures, including gaurds to keep people and machinery separated. BTW: a lawn mower has a safety gaurd. I wouldn't eliminate it just because the blade would eject the cut grass more efficiently. I see it as a reasonable safety device that reduces injuries.
4. I agree it's unfortunate accidents are going to happen no matter what. And when they do it shouldn't have to get to the point where courts and jurys are asked to resolve the issues. But I dissagree that law suits surrounding personal safety are frivolous. It's always worth it when people fight to make everyone safer, especially when it involves making children safer.
5. I do see your point.

1. Sorry. The implication was assumed on my part as for your support of the lawsuit and the wording of your original post. I appreciate your clarification.

2. Again, my apologies. It seems every time I attempt to be politically correct I still manage to offend. My use of ‘common sense challenged’ was not intended to demean anyone less intelligent. I really don’t know if there is a proper label for people who may or may not be intelligent but for what ever reason have the inability to think of the potential consequences of their actions before performing those actions. I know of several names used frequently in this thread to describe said person, but they seemed more demeaning and condescending than the label I mistakenly chose. You’re most likely correct with your statement of the vast majority of boating accidents involve young adults. Lack of experience and training do indeed contribute to most accidents of all categories, not just boating. Yes sir, I remember when I was younger & agree with you. I must admit though, some of my mistakes (but not all) are well appreciated by me today. Those mistakes have given me some great knowledge…..I have the scars to prove it too. For the record, I never said I have never been ‘common sense challenged’, nor will I ever say I will never be ‘common sense challenged’ in the future.

3. Welcome, my fellow safety nerd – man, we need to come up with a secret hand shake or something. I too have been on a few safety committees and your description of your fellow co-worker, well suffice it to say, there’s one in every group. I’m glad for your clarification of a reasonable safety device regarding a lawnmower’s safety guard. Again, I assumed initially you wanted complete safety to the point of ineffective products.

4. You said “But I disagree that law suits surrounding personal safety are frivolous. It's always worth it when people fight to make everyone safer, especially when it involves making children safer.” I cannot disagree with your statement as written. However, I don’t believe you can deny the fact many lawsuits involving injury or death due to one’s own negligence, inexperience, etc. are unnecessarily brought to court with a ”very good attorney” and the “truly responsible party” is awarded a handsome settlement for their irresponsible actions. This is what irritates many of us.

5. Again, I see your point too.

Cheers

Wayne