-meat
-rubba 'ducer
Elaborate ??
Through Hull Ducer
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ALUMINATOR
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Ironwoodtuna
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TRANSDUCER TROUBLES AND RESOLUTIONS
AlloyToy,
I just happened to see a picture of the JettyWolfs transducer and saw a problem with the way it was mounted. Jettywolf says that he doesn't have a problem but If you go to this thread you'll see what I am saying: viewtopic.php?t=53&sid=a77e620a1917f2cbc1f054477cb8500a
You will see my comments and if you copy the picture link and go to it, you will see what I am saying. JettyWolf says that he doesn't have a problem, but my comments may help you.
TINMAN,
A) I like your name. In my marina all the captains call me on the radio by "TINMAN" because they can't say my boats name or remember it. I guess naming my boat after my wife's Chinese nickname "XIAO MU JI" (She-Oh-Moo-Gee) wasn't the best for radio chatter.
B) I like the idea but think the placement is poor at best. When you are that close to the hard chine you will end up with mostly bubbles comming across the transducer and screwing up what you are trying to eleminate by making that nice bracket.
Copy the below link and go Look at his picture:
I would rather see this bracket mounted at least 6-10" to the center of the hull and set at 90-degrees to the bottom, then a ramp made and 1" or 2" wide than the transducer & bracket and make it start at least 12" to 18" in front of the bracket. This would then allow the water without air bubbles to flow smoothly up and over the transducer. Then bottom would be able to be maintained at WOT.
Just my past experiences with transome mounted transducers. Marty
I just happened to see a picture of the JettyWolfs transducer and saw a problem with the way it was mounted. Jettywolf says that he doesn't have a problem but If you go to this thread you'll see what I am saying: viewtopic.php?t=53&sid=a77e620a1917f2cbc1f054477cb8500a
You will see my comments and if you copy the picture link and go to it, you will see what I am saying. JettyWolf says that he doesn't have a problem, but my comments may help you.
TINMAN,
A) I like your name. In my marina all the captains call me on the radio by "TINMAN" because they can't say my boats name or remember it. I guess naming my boat after my wife's Chinese nickname "XIAO MU JI" (She-Oh-Moo-Gee) wasn't the best for radio chatter.
B) I like the idea but think the placement is poor at best. When you are that close to the hard chine you will end up with mostly bubbles comming across the transducer and screwing up what you are trying to eleminate by making that nice bracket.
Copy the below link and go Look at his picture:
I would rather see this bracket mounted at least 6-10" to the center of the hull and set at 90-degrees to the bottom, then a ramp made and 1" or 2" wide than the transducer & bracket and make it start at least 12" to 18" in front of the bracket. This would then allow the water without air bubbles to flow smoothly up and over the transducer. Then bottom would be able to be maintained at WOT.
Just my past experiences with transome mounted transducers. Marty
Last edited by Ironwoodtuna on Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"IRONWOODTUNA" the Alloy Sportfisherman Battleship!-
Ironwoodtuna
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Alloytoy,AlloyToy wrote:Marty,
What do you mean by the bottom plate? I follow what you are saying and I like the ramp idea too
Sorry I am not making my description so clear. Video make life a lot easier. But here, try this>>>
The bottom of your boat is the bottom plate that makes up your boats bottom, if you look at how BLM lets the bottom plate extend beyond the transom plate, The top of the transducer cup or unit should be at the bottom of the bottom plate, this means the entire tranducer cup or unit is just below the bottom plate and no bubbles are then made before the flowing water comes across the transducer bottom because the bottom of the transducer is roughly 3/4" to 1" below the bottom plate level. I hope this makes sense.
I will be going to my boat in the next week or two and I am going to be installing a transome monuted Hummingbird 998SI Side Imaging unit in the boat. I will take pictures of my old Bottomline transducer and then the new unit mounted for you to think about.
I will also make you a short video of both my flush mount unit and the new tranducer and the Boat Trim tab units for everyone to understand better. Marty
"IRONWOODTUNA" the Alloy Sportfisherman Battleship!-
AlloyToy
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Make sense.....
Thanks for the help, I'll give that a try in the spring. I'm close to dialing it in but I installed it per the instructions from Airmar
Thank you
Thank you
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JETTYWOLF
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Alloy, Marty,
I know what your talking about...kinda per most direction manuals.
As I had about 10 different machines on my last two boats, and was always changing 'ducers.
They always want ya to have the 'ducer just a 1/4 inch or so below the bottom plane of the hull and kicked back just a hair and level, from what I remember. To start off. That way the water comes over the 'ducer unobstructed.
Alloy, thats what you are having a problem with. If you installed it that way, maybe it needs tweeking to get the right read. So I put up the piucs to show how mine seems deep, and maybe thats where yours needs to be too.
But at the same time, is your scope powewful enough to read deep when running? Maybe it's not the transducer, at all....You know what I mean.
But when you look at mine it seems to sit much lower than that, and thats what Marty's talking about.
But "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is my mentality... so I'm happy with mine, so I'll keep it that way.
Plus 90% of where I fish, I've been fishing for 22 years total, 25 on and off. And went over two years with just a sounder that said 25 feet deep if I was in 25 foot of water. No color screen, no plotter, no GPS....zilcho.
I be master 'o my domain. :roll:
I know what your talking about...kinda per most direction manuals.
As I had about 10 different machines on my last two boats, and was always changing 'ducers.
They always want ya to have the 'ducer just a 1/4 inch or so below the bottom plane of the hull and kicked back just a hair and level, from what I remember. To start off. That way the water comes over the 'ducer unobstructed.
Alloy, thats what you are having a problem with. If you installed it that way, maybe it needs tweeking to get the right read. So I put up the piucs to show how mine seems deep, and maybe thats where yours needs to be too.
But at the same time, is your scope powewful enough to read deep when running? Maybe it's not the transducer, at all....You know what I mean.
But when you look at mine it seems to sit much lower than that, and thats what Marty's talking about.
But "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is my mentality... so I'm happy with mine, so I'll keep it that way.
Plus 90% of where I fish, I've been fishing for 22 years total, 25 on and off. And went over two years with just a sounder that said 25 feet deep if I was in 25 foot of water. No color screen, no plotter, no GPS....zilcho.
I be master 'o my domain. :roll:
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AlloyToy
- Donator '08 '09 '10
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10-4 Dave, Mine is mounted more like yours is. If I kick the gain way up I do get a reading but it's all air bubbles with a correct depth thrown in on occasion, I think because of maybe hitting a small wave and sinking the stern down a little.
You are correct that the MFG. has this ideal position they want it mounted at. I'm gonna lower it in the spring and see what happens
You are correct that the MFG. has this ideal position they want it mounted at. I'm gonna lower it in the spring and see what happens
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Ironwoodtuna
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YES
AlloyToy, Yes I do think a ramp will make a difference. I may have to build one for my new transducer. I thought that I would be going to the boat this weekend but work is just crazy. Maybe next week weather depending, I will get you some additional shots. I got the photos posting as you can see.Marty
"IRONWOODTUNA" the Alloy Sportfisherman Battleship!In looking at Mark's bracket on the 26' ST I realized why he did what he did because I believe he wants to install the Airmar B164 1kW Tilted Element™.
For those of you who don't know what this (taken from the brochure) it is a Low-profile thru-hull design that leaves no protrusions below the hull. No effect on your boats running performance The new 1kW, B164 low-profile, tilted element transducer is perfect for fast, trailered tournament sport fishing vessels who cannot have a high-performance fairing. The low-profile, bronze housing protrudes less than 6.35 mm (0.25”) outside your hull and can sit on trailer rollers and bunks with no damage at all. The tilted element takes into account the hull's deadrise therefore no need for a fairing.
B164 1kW Tilted Element™
Surfing around THT I found some pictures of that beast. I have attached them below. I don't think I want to bore a tunnel in the bottom of my boat which that thing requires (3.75 "). It was also not clear if the unit could be purchased in stainless steel, even though there is a part number in the installation manual their is no link on the Airmar web page.
Richard
For those of you who don't know what this (taken from the brochure) it is a Low-profile thru-hull design that leaves no protrusions below the hull. No effect on your boats running performance The new 1kW, B164 low-profile, tilted element transducer is perfect for fast, trailered tournament sport fishing vessels who cannot have a high-performance fairing. The low-profile, bronze housing protrudes less than 6.35 mm (0.25”) outside your hull and can sit on trailer rollers and bunks with no damage at all. The tilted element takes into account the hull's deadrise therefore no need for a fairing.
B164 1kW Tilted Element™
Surfing around THT I found some pictures of that beast. I have attached them below. I don't think I want to bore a tunnel in the bottom of my boat which that thing requires (3.75 "). It was also not clear if the unit could be purchased in stainless steel, even though there is a part number in the installation manual their is no link on the Airmar web page.
Richard
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Ironwoodtuna
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NO GOOD!
OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IMO-If that is BRONZE forget about it!
You will end up with major electrolisis issues.
If its stainless no problem. Maybe if its bronze, you could coat it with epoxy flex coat and build up two or three coats of it to isolate it from the hull.
But I would recommend then watching the quality of the epoxy to insure isolation between the two worst dis-simalar metals. I would also make some lexan washers for the inside to not let the unit touch the aluminum.
Marty
IMO-If that is BRONZE forget about it!
You will end up with major electrolisis issues.
If its stainless no problem. Maybe if its bronze, you could coat it with epoxy flex coat and build up two or three coats of it to isolate it from the hull.
But I would recommend then watching the quality of the epoxy to insure isolation between the two worst dis-simalar metals. I would also make some lexan washers for the inside to not let the unit touch the aluminum.
Marty
"IRONWOODTUNA" the Alloy Sportfisherman Battleship!You guy's had asked a question about Nats boat. I do some install work here in Pensacola and did the install on Nats boat.
I wanted to put a tilted element unit in his boat and found a easy access to get to it.
I then called Jim @ BOE and talked to him about the plastic units. He told me they were only single freq. & had a weird plug.
I found that a little strange, but had to take his word for it, as he knows what hes talking about.
So I ordered the P66 transom mount unit. That is the unit I installed.
After making that order and doing some more research I found the Stainless tilted unit.
Pt # SS565-12 or SS565-20
Scroll down to the top of page #3
http://www.airmartechnology.com/uploads ... 364-01.pdf
You will see that this unit comes with a special bushing to isolate the X-ducer from the hull.
This will be the unit I will install in the next "Tin" boat. :)
Epoxy was added to those tie down pads, as the double sided tape comes loose after a while and we don't want that cable flopping around.
Alum was drilled and taped for 10/32 to mount the unit. Locktite was added to the threads.
Jack- My Chocolate Lab on a Black Lab. :)
I wanted to put a tilted element unit in his boat and found a easy access to get to it.
I then called Jim @ BOE and talked to him about the plastic units. He told me they were only single freq. & had a weird plug.
I found that a little strange, but had to take his word for it, as he knows what hes talking about.
So I ordered the P66 transom mount unit. That is the unit I installed.
After making that order and doing some more research I found the Stainless tilted unit.
Pt # SS565-12 or SS565-20
Scroll down to the top of page #3
http://www.airmartechnology.com/uploads ... 364-01.pdf
You will see that this unit comes with a special bushing to isolate the X-ducer from the hull.
This will be the unit I will install in the next "Tin" boat. :)
Epoxy was added to those tie down pads, as the double sided tape comes loose after a while and we don't want that cable flopping around.
Alum was drilled and taped for 10/32 to mount the unit. Locktite was added to the threads.
Jack- My Chocolate Lab on a Black Lab. :)
"Just 'cause it's New, doesn't mean it's worth a Damn."
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AlloyToy
- Donator '08 '09 '10
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- Location: MA & RI
Will do, and give it a try. I'm also thinking about making a sub plate that comes off the hull bottom and encapsulates the transducer sorta like Marty's. Just trying to make a smoother water transition.
See how the hull bottom protrudes 3/4" past the aft vertical plate? I'm wondering if water/air comes around that corner and races upward creating air pockets? Just a thought.
Thank you for your thoughts & help
See how the hull bottom protrudes 3/4" past the aft vertical plate? I'm wondering if water/air comes around that corner and races upward creating air pockets? Just a thought.
Thank you for your thoughts & help
Marty,
I agree with your assessment about the Bronze element. Even within the installation instructions form Airmar the SS element requires an isolation bushing for installation in metal hulls. I just posted the pictures so one can see how big the 1KW unit was. It is not clear what the SS unit looks like. Upon a little more digging it seem that the SS housing is a special order item. In the spec pdf it says, "Available in stainless steel housing upon special request(SS164)"
Richard
I agree with your assessment about the Bronze element. Even within the installation instructions form Airmar the SS element requires an isolation bushing for installation in metal hulls. I just posted the pictures so one can see how big the 1KW unit was. It is not clear what the SS unit looks like. Upon a little more digging it seem that the SS housing is a special order item. In the spec pdf it says, "Available in stainless steel housing upon special request(SS164)"
Richard
