Marine Hydraulics

[Fisherman]

So what does it take to get set up with hydraulics? I'd like to explore the possiblity of the following hydraulic system(s) on my next boat, but really don't know anything about them or what exists. Sooo...is it possible to have hydraulic steering, a hydraulic windlass, two hydraulic downriggers (instead of Cannon or Scotty electric riggers), and a hydraulic davit and run them all off the same hydraulic pump? What does it take to run the pump? How big of a pump would I need? Also, I am leaning towards twin ETEC outboards. Does this mean I would need a separate motor to turn the hydraulic pump? Gas? Electric?

If anyone knows of other info on the web they can point me to, that would be great.

[welder]

Steering system is best left alone [ it and your auto pilot ]
Hyd to run the rest is easy , most run a Honda Power plant in the 10 to 15 HP range to supply the rest of the goodies.

Hyd will cost much more than electric BUT if plumbed in properly the Hyd will kick but for YEARS to come.

[welderbob]

wow! Your asking one system to do a lot. Outboards aren't going to drive any of that. There are many ways to skin a cat, I'll take a stab at this.
Hydraulic steering :Simplest would be to use a power steering system. Teleflex and Uflex make power steering system that run on 12v. I haven't install on yet ,but like the Uflex system. I looks to draw less power. .

^You have to look at the number of gallons per minute and the maximum pressure they need to determine the horsepower needed to drive the hydraulic pump. The fluid(gallons / minute) that is produced is used turn a hydraulic motor in the piece of equipment that is working. The harder the motor works/ the more pressure that is needed to make it turn.

Example. A hydraulic windlass may need 8 gpm of hydraulic oil say at 500 psi to make it turn or pull 50 ft of line per minute. . Now put a 1000lbs of pull on the anchor. The 8gpm stays the same, but the pressure (work ) may increase to 1500psi. So you may need a 8 horsepower gas engine to drive the pump at that pressure.

Now you need to determine how many piece of equipment yo need to run at the same time. to determine how many gallons per minute of hydraulic you need. There are variable displacement pumps that will sense the load, but this get more expensive and complicated

All of this works a lot better when you have an inboard engine with a power take-off. Its not very fun on a small boat listening to a 9 hp Honda power pack screaming away.

We are currently putting together a power pack to drive a crane, deck winch,wash-down pump and pressure washer. Should have some pictures at the end of the month.

Welderbob

[kmorin]

Fisherman, there are some other points to add to your thinking along the lines of the other welders' listed facts.

First is while you CAN take off hydraulic pump torque off the top of an outboard engine, that usually immediately cancels ALL warrantee/guarantee/backup/support/dealer cooperation. The reason is; these engines are designed to take their entire load from the one end; down. They will run fine for years with an aftermarket hydraulic pump on top but the entire show is a serious pain in the stern.

So in order not to cancel the factory back up when some tiny 10.00 part goes away, most guys opt for a 'power pack' if they have outboard powered boats.

Commercial boats and other inboard boats all use hydraulics driven off of the main engine in one of several schemes; all of which you can't consider with outboards.

Because the steering only uses a cup of fluid (under whatever needed pressure) to move the tiller cylinder in either direction, fully; it's not worth the plumbing and associated protection from a working type fluid power system to use the 'main' hydraulics for steering even in large boats. (70-80')

The reason for using fluid power instead of electrical power is the amount of torque or power you can get in one location in a very short time when compared to the same work done by electric equipment. Most owners move from the purely recreational class, ten weekend a year outboard powered skiff to the live aboard, diesel inboard that usually mounts the type of equipment you're describing.

There are many locations for hydraulic calculations on the i'net, many of them will help you to work out the design of your system but let's take one rule of thumb? A 3/8" 2500 PSI SWP hose costs about 10 bucks a foot and more for the ends, (say they add 2.00$/foot) and will move a few horse power of work from the pump to the winch. A pair of #4 or #6 cables will run about $2.00 a foot and carry about the same power from an alternator to the electric winch. So the entire system will cost (est.), hardware alone; about five (to seven) times the cost of electrical, and take five times as long to install so the labor will be about five times as much to put on the boat.

Those are some of the reasons there is an entire non-commercial fishing, marine supply industry that provides electric versions of the hydraulic components. The average recreational boat's time on the water is less than the commercial boats, the work they do is much less critical to the skipper's livelihood and therefore the less costly and less powerful equipment is used.

As welder said, an hydraulic system can be a winner if it's done well. I don't think recip. driven fluid power is the simplest system on a boat but thankfully there are dozens of sites that focus on hydraulics to help you get 'knowed up' and make your decision.

I installed lots of net handling gear, rollers, reels, cargo and net booms, topping lifts, boom sways, anchor winches, wash-down pumps, davits, crab pot launchers, on commercial boats from 28' to 117' in the past and would recommend you find a good reputable (hydraulic) 'house' close to you or the builder's shop that can help advise, consult and design your system. If it's your first time ; it's worth that full-time guys' costs.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin

[buck3]

So what does it take to get set up with hydraulics? I'd like to explore the possiblity of the following hydraulic system(s) on my next boat, but really don't know anything about them or what exists. Sooo...is it possible to have hydraulic steering, a hydraulic windlass, two hydraulic downriggers (instead of Cannon or Scotty electric riggers), and a hydraulic davit and run them all off the same hydraulic pump? What does it take to run the pump? How big of a pump would I need? Also, I am leaning towards twin ETEC outboards. Does this mean I would need a separate motor to turn the hydraulic pump? Gas? Electric?

If anyone knows of other info on the web they can point me to, that would be great.

Like others have said. Leave the steering on a separate circuit.

Other then that. Yes, a honda power pack is a great item if you have the room. Depending on how big your boat is, I would think a 5-7hp would be plenty. I have a 9hp and it is never is over a idle, I wish I would have bought a 5.5hp unit to save money. I went with the 9hp because it was electric start though.

I use my to power a crab block and Kolstrand single spool gurdies ( http://www.kolstrand.com/trolling/power ... gurdy.html ) I also use them as down riggers for sport fishing.

Your options are either set up a valve assembly to divert the fluid to where ever you need ($$), Or if you want to save money you can use quick connect couplers to run each item.

[Fisherman]

Thanks for the responses. I have a lot of research to do, and am thankful for the info given.

[onwhiskeycreek]

The downside to using auxiliary power plants is the noise they generate. We have short run times to our pot strings and skates which makes electrical pullers impractical. We fish either off our neighbors boat that has a 9 HP Honda Hyd package, or our boat which has 5 hp Honda capstan. The neighbors is set up for commercial use or for subsistence. Our boat is set up for subsistence. The hyd unit is easier to run and can pick a bigger string, the capstan unit takes more experience to run but is a lot less money. But by the time we finish pullling 4 strings and a skate we are all ready for some quiet time. We shut down as soon as each string or skate hits the deck. So if you have a lot of work to do and a short run get a auxiliary unit. There is a lot of excellent electrical equipment that is better suited to sports fishing than having to start a motor just to pull a ball.

Gary