Gov't Outta Control !

[Occams Razor]

Hi All !

As if things are not bad enough !

They have to force this crap down our throats !

If this keeps up like this we may as well all move to some island......Alloy Island

[TRACER]

you got that right

[Lucky Louie]

AMEN brother Occams!

[Occams Razor]

Brother's !

I tellya they go on and on about Bi partisian this and that and argure over something that makes ZERO sense at all !

Gonna make me (Joe taxpayer) more money to flip the bill for those in need.....

Well I tell ya Those In Need .......Go tell you political diciple that they need to close the doors on imports and start

manufacturing in this country and sell what they make here ! Then Those in Need can get a ******* Job instead of sitting on

their lazy asses expecting handouts . I would rather give it all to the elderly that the lazy bastards !

Oh boy am I pissed ! Yes good and pissed ! But better to be Peed off than Peed on

I truely hope those states that challenging the constitionality of this slam the door ! Then those lazy Sobs can go live in

their own little areas and support whatever stupidity they want and the rest of us can focus of Common Sense !

[AlloyToy]

My wife is a nurse. The state of Mass has put the hospital my wife works in, in jeopardy by not paying their bills. We are suppose to be the "MODEL" for this package HA!!! How about starting with the truth!!!! IT SUCKS!! They required everyone to have health insurance, gave Mass Health to those who have no insurance, approve of everyone to use the ER like a walk in clinic....what a freakin mess So now her hospital is full of walkin's on Mass Health, who get all the treatment that anyone than pays for their insurance gets, and on top of it the good ole state of Mass won't pay their bills.....and they're OK with it.....

So they have had to cut staff, which in turn has an effect on patient care, cut benefits like health insurance HA!! A hospital cutting health insurance for their own staff.....

What will happen when all those whom have never had insurance soon get it, decide to have every test, procedure, exam under the sun that they never had in the past because now they can Now you and I who have paid all along for insurance and paid our dues are stuck on a waiting list because the hospitals are under staffed and over burdened with new patients

We as a country are not prepared for what is about to come in regards to this health care issue. Nor are the pharmaceutical companies, the hospitals, the doctors, and the businesses that will be paying for the majority of this BS

This is being jammed down our throats period

This Goddamn government could not even run "Cash For Clunkers" right....and now they want to take over health care Are they otta their freakin minds

[Occams Razor]

Alloy:

Sorry to hear the situation with the better half........

It really is idiot decision......

I for one truely believe that this is all going to backfire on the whole political party and we may very well end up in a

Revolution style state by state Govt. Each state will support its own programs as some do now. It my very well have to be

done. All this sweethart S*** deals made . It is time people that we make those responsible that have voted this up be made

to realize that is not England and we are not under the Kings rule anymore ! We vote them it to make sound decisions.....

and they do anything but ! Pull the plug on them all ! Next election make them go out and find a real job that they have

to perform real duties to get health care....not the free ride crap they all take advantage of while they make these

ludacris decisions ! I hope they are ready for a fight because if its a fight they want its a fight they will get and they will

all go down ! Ever wonder why Palin gets digs all the time from these idiots ? Because she speaks common sense, something

they do not understand !

[JETTYWOLF]

If not by the grace of some decision maker that allowed me to get VA health insurance, I would have NONE. Can't afford it and my employer doesn't provide it (ME).

As a self employed american for the past 14 years, there's never been a time that I could chunk out $200-$300 a month on top of everything else for "some kind of care".

I've paid doctors cash in the past to have "bad looking cells" cut out of my back a few times. And for pulling a tooth.
And for eye exams etc.

I don't have a new truck, or a even go on a single vacation. Or sometimes have groceries in the fridge, even. But I remember Bush saying American small business is the back bone of America.........bull crap! He means big business, not one man shows.

If the VA is anything like a universal health care, all I can say is they have their stuff in one sock. So far they have been so good. They are on top of everything. Preventative Maintenance is #1 it seems. And now with possible prostrate cancer, I guess If I didn't have any health care, like in the past. I'd just die earlier??

I've owned $3,000 before, for going to a hospital for with two kidney stones. Because I couldn't make it to the VA hospital 2.5 hrs away. Which was a huge mistake. I had to let it go to collections. My dad was between jobs and had no health care and has had kidney stones lodged so bad he needed surgery before. He also went to the hospiltal and couldn't pay the "entry fee", so he just suffered another time. They charged him $1500 for 15 minutes. And told him to go somewhere else once they saw he had no insurance. I guess it was the wrong hospital.

Health care for all Americans is a great idea. The VA is maybe a bit Canadian like....But I can't complain.

PBS Frontline did a great comparison between us and the rest of the worlds comparative countries. And in many places doctors don't drive Bentleys, but make a good living as other highly trained people do.

The problem I have is Football players making 20 million over 5 years, at the age of 25 and can't speak a complete sentence with out saying........."ya know what I mean...ya know what I mean....ya know what I mean."

No matter what happens. I'm glad to see the 4th president who tried (4th? I think) to get something done actually do it. It maybe because of the majority. Either way...

If they make me buy health care, it better be cheap! Or the charter biz better wake up in this part of Florida.
Cause so far 2010 is one of the worst years I've ever seen, economically and this winter has killed the fishing here.

[Occams Razor]

Jetty:

Sorry about your situation....

I know many in the same boat......but as I ...you are a veteran and we can use that if needed

My point as all in upheaval now is nobody wants to pay the Emergency Room bills that people who do not pay taxes as

we do continue to use over and over with no respect as to the consequences.

Bud you choose to do what you do because you love it. I cannot blame you , but if it fails you sure as hell are not going

to sit on your ars for years and do not a damn thing ....I think you are a better man than that.

I live in a state that we support people that have abused the system for 4 generations now ! It is beyond out of comtrol !

This new situation is going to make alot of things worse and yes there will be many positive points but the

negatives are unbelievable !

[AlloyToy]

Occam,

Out here Deval made an attempt at shutting down the out patient services at the veteran's home. The last thing any politician should do is take anything from a veteran who dedicated his life to this country. Who do they think protected and protects all their sorry butts

Felt sorry for guys like my dad who did his time in Vietnam And now we are going to take services away due to "Budget cuts" I'm sorry but NO WAY Wanna make cuts start with Mass Highway union BS.......OK I'll stop!!!

Sorry for the rant.....I have no use for Massachusetts Government My hope is that Scott Brown will now stand tall and make decisions on morals....not "the good ole boy system"

[AlloyToy]

Well we got our "New Mass Health Insurance Renewal Rates" I own a small shop with 7 full time employees whom have health coverage under the "New Mass Laws". They range in age from 24-44. We are looking at a $1107.83 per month increase for the exact same coverage which is "middle of the road"

With some of our customers closing up shop and going overseas, and large corporations playing the money game it will be interesting to see where my companies future lies....That new boat may just be a pie in the sky

[pjay9]

Glad to see that there is so much talk about this. The situations to be resolved for each of us is different and sometimes complex or maybe simple. My DW is scared as to what will happen to our Insurance that we get thru our retirement which we totally pay for, we are just part of the working force policy we pay full boat, it is not a benny like the auto union guys. Our taxes this year hit us hard as well...and all of this is going to GO UP! Gheez!

SO WHAT DO WE DO!!!! Here comes November, we vote the bums out on their ear and repeal or refuse to fund the HCare bill...that will slow and shut things down. Down with Reid and Polosky I don't care about the spelling she is not long for being speaker. Then we vote O out in 2012 and get a real down to earth person with direct values in. I am reloading! Capt PJ

PS, if we gather together we will be a force to be reckoned with....the "ALLOY FACTOR"...let not your heart be troubled take a stand and move forward and support the proper way of doing business for our Constitution says we can!!! Amen!

[JETTYWOLF]

I guess if someone makes 250K a year or better they are against it and the ones that do not are for it?

$$$ the root of all evil.

I voted for some kind of change

Just give it some time, in 20 years it'll be okay and maybe we'll be in line with other civilized countries that are happier than most americans are.

I guess people were opposed to Social Security too.

[trouty]

We have had nationalized medicare for what 25 years now or more, so i feel i can tell you the good and bad of it..

In remote areas it made little difference - there are only govt provided hospitals and half dozen doctors to choose from so whether private patient with health insurance cover or medicare public patient you get the same room bed food and doctor as the private cover patient as a public patient.

In the city it's different, there if you have private cover you can get a private hospital and your own doctor and specialists you choose etc...BUT, even with full health cover these a LARGE (couple grand) bill waiting for YOU to pay after any sort of operation, at a private hospital under private health insurance.

The insurers just don;t cover it ALL - there's a GAP (they call it that - the "gap") between what the doctors specialists anesthetist's etc charge and what the health cover pays - and YOU pay for that difference before leaving the hospital.

My ol mums 78 and has had private health cover all her life, but all the same is a pensioner living off a small govt aged pension (since age 65)+ her own superannuation.

Despite the private health care cover - she has been having a few problems that old ladies tend to get at that time of life and has been going to govt hospitals as a free medicare patient to save $ (so she doesn't have to pay all these large GAP bills for her limited funds).

Coz she's old and frail I drive her to all her appointments etc and wait etc and bring her back.

Other night we went to a govt hospital "free clinic" at like 8.30PM at night - we were home again at 10.30PM - that included driving time 12 miles each way! She got a thorough examination from a well qualified and experienced female doctor, along with a referral to a specialist woman's hospital for further test the following day.

Another thorough examination and many tests (looking for any sign of cancer) - they sent her home with me maybe 4 hours later. After midnight that night she hemorrhaged badly - so I rang 000 (your equivalent 911) and they sent an ambulance - had her back in the same woman's hospital in 30 minutes tops from when I rang.

They had her for a couple days and fixed the bleeding, then sent her home again.

She's since been back for one more test.

This month she's booked in for probably a full hysterectomy.

The bill so far $100 for the ambulance ride - but her private health insurance pays all that so no charge.

Charge from all the visits and tests? Zero.

Charge from the upcoming surgery and hospitalization after wards? Zero.

Now - MAYBE if instead of the public hospitals - she had gone private under her insurance, (as she's perfectly entitled to do) they would have not dallied around so long for 3 weeks with all the tests and repeat visits to hospital, they probably would have put her straight into hospital and done the operation.

In that case it would already be over - she would already be on her way to recovery BUT she sure would have had a big $Bill waiting for her to pay, that the insurance don't cover.

There are long waiting lists at public hospitals for 'elective surgery' - say I'm a fat bass turd, and ask my doc to give me stomach lap banding surgery - well as a public patient under medicare that's classed as elective surgery - its me asking for it for quality of life reasons = i may wait anything up to 2 years to get a bed and operation.

If I have private health cover I go get the operation this week....but I end up PAYING for that speed, well on top of what my private health insurance premiums cover for the GAP!

I can't say that the public system is great coz it isn't, yes you COULD die waiting to get into hospital BUT - I also can't say it is bad - in an emergency - you get treated like a first class citizen - straight into emergency room - and if necessary off to the operating theater.

Where you want elective surgery (a new hip or knee etc) well you gonna have to join the Que and wait your turn.

If you one of these people who has serious illnesses like cancer etc then you better off with private cover and select your own doctor and treatment under the govt system you going to get the radiation and chemo therapy that the public system provides.

Public Patient Medicare is just fine for the usual run of the mill broken bone type visit to hospital etc but if you got family (kids) in serious need of medical hep - then private health insurance and cover and your own doctor and specialists is for you.

I got poor teeth and dental ain't much covered in the medicare system 'cept basic tooth pulling for a tooth ache type thing - so again - I aint in there getting crowns and stuff done every other week I visit a dentist maybe once every 10 or 20 years if I can manage it which so far I have. Got my wisdom tooth pulled in the chair 0dentist wanted to hospitalize me put me under general anesthetic and open up the jaw bone some with surgery to get the sucker out due to what the xray showed (it was so deep rooted it was connected to my balls).

The idea of the hospital bill with zero health cover - well it's cared the damn tooth right outta my head - not that youd a thunk so with the dentist stood on my chair pulling at the tooth with pliers and fully shakin me up outta the seat like a pit bull terrier killin a cat!

The tooth come out and I lived to tell the tail.

Your Obama care might not turn out as bad as you think...least poor people will get access to REASONABLE health care.

Those who can still afford it will get the best care money can buy!

Give it a try and see how it works out for you is my suggestion.

Cheers

[welder]

Trouty, ya got to understand ... Our poor already have health care.
This is just another CASH COW for the Federal Govt. here, they [ The Govt.] have screwed up our Social Security system , Our Banking, Medicare, and every other program they can .

You need to read the fine print on what they want the American WORKING CLASS public to pay for! and how they are wanting to TAKE it from us

We are the Land of the FREE, at least that's how I was raised and now we are turning into the land of the SLAVES.

I have worked my BACK SIDE off for 35 years to put something together for my Wife and I and now the Government want to take it away to pay for the same no good lazy BACK SIDE's the have put NOTHING into the system and NEVER WILL. And to top it off the crazy asshats want to take on 13 MILLION Mexicans for FREE , FREE HEALTH CARE,FREE SCHOOLS , FREE FOOD, FREE CITIZEN SHIP

And guess what................The middle class WORKING MAN gets to PAY FOR IT ALL...AGAIN.


Trouty, I'm not raggen on you Sir, this is how I feel about what's happening here in the USA.

I have already ask another member here if the wife and I could come live with them in Brisbane .

[JETTYWOLF]

Trouty's explanation sounds not all that bad to me.

The good the bad and the ugly has to come with everything. Nations aren't a lil island off somewhere with a small population.

W,W, W, cool off man....Watch the blood pressure. How are you getting screwed out of 35 years worth of.....? Ya have to understand that this country made a huge mistake when it needed cheap labor. And to this day we're paying for it. Now the "across the border" folk are that new cheap labor.

Hell, I was cheap labor for a long time, dead end j-o-b, and broker than broke year after year, till I said......"KMA" and did what I wanted.

Pay now, pay later and continue to pay. Back then they wanted cheap cotten shirts and cheap pipe tobbaco. Today it's cheap produce and clean hotel rooms that are still 39.99 a night. It's all economic. No matter who you are a Donkey or a Elephant or a gun toting tea bagger.

The ole saying goes.....blablabla, "give me the patience to live with, what I can't change"

Life is too short to get all mad, full of rage, and anger towards something you can not change. My dad now 71 says that too me all the time. And he has me seeing the larger picture. I'm not even a "cog" in the wheel, but rather just an "atom" in the cog that makes up the wheel.

That's why I like to do what I want, when I want, and how I want. I think about it this way, I could get dropped in the middle of a forest somewhere and become a cave man and who would really loose sleep over it? But a few family members and friends. Otherwise, I'm insignificant....just a one man show. So I might as well just fish my azz off, not give a crap about the stuff I can't change, burn the fuel I can afford in my boat, and catch and eat the fish, as long as I can.

And smile doing it.

[Lucky Louie]

Jetty I am gonna keep TRY this short because your posts sent my blood pressure sky high.

The dipshit in the white house right now is doing everything in his power (With the help of the bleeding heart liberals in the house and senate) to turn this country into a socialist republic.

I already pay thru the nose in taxes and "Fees" already. What little I have left now will be even smaller with "The changes" you so enthusiastically support.

Who in the HEYALL do you think is gonna pay for all the bullsheeeet of your revered "Change"???? Yep, the middle class working stiff. ME! (And NO I do NOT make 250K a year) I wish I had the chart that was in the newspaper about how much you were gonna pay due to income level. It gave me a screaming case of the RED-AZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!

As Forrest said, "That's all I got to say about that".

[welder]

Trouty's explanation sounds not all that bad to me.
If you notice his Mum carries her own Health insurance for when top notch care is needed.

The good the bad and the ugly has to come with everything. Nations aren't a lil island off somewhere with a small population.
The whole country of Australia has about 21 million people and the great state of Texas has over 27 million people, so in comparison , yes they are a small country.

W,W, W, cool off man....Watch the blood pressure. How are you getting screwed out of 35 years worth of.....? Ya have to understand that this country made a huge mistake when it needed cheap labor. And to this day we're paying for it. Now the "across the border" folk are that new cheap labor.
I'm getting screwed by "THE MAN" by letting the interest rates drop to 1.5% for almost the last 10 years , The monies WE ALL have paid into SS that they have robbed and abused,The 30% cut they just did to MEDICARE, these are just a few. Most people only look at, "What It does for ME"and don't stop to think about future generations. Do you know that over the next 4 years the USA will be , $14,000,000,000,000.00 $14 TRILLION in DEBT, That's more money than is printed in the ENTIRE WORLD TODAY. Right now our wonderful leader has the USA in debt so far that if we could sell the ENTIRE USA and every thing in it we could NOT pay our debt off, but hey that's ok , just write another check we can't be out of money we still have checks, right?

Hell, I was cheap labor for a long time, dead end j-o-b, and broker than broke year after year, till I said......"KMA" and did what I wanted.
Those that want to be cheap labor will be cheap labor , WE have a choice but not for much longer with this CHANGE.We will ALL be cheap labor [ Read, the gov. wants us dependent on them to control us]

Pay now, pay later and continue to pay. Back then they wanted cheap cotten shirts and cheap pipe tobbaco. Today it's cheap produce and clean hotel rooms that are still 39.99 a night. It's all economic. No matter who you are a Donkey or a Elephant or a gun toting tea bagger.
In the next 4 years it WILL be PAY NOW , there is NO LATER.

The ole saying goes.....blablabla, "give me the patience to live with, what I can't change"
I think in reality that , that statement is more like towards your Boss telling you what hours you have to work or what color shirts you have to wear to work.

Life is too short to get all mad, full of rage, and anger towards something you can not change. My dad now 71 says that too me all the time. And he has me seeing the larger picture. I'm not even a "cog" in the wheel, but rather just an "atom" in the cog that makes up the wheel.
Our country is made up of ALL your Atoms , we are only as strong as our weakest link and right now there are 512 people that are ABOVE the rest of us [ Read, WILL NOT LIVE BY THE RULES THEY SET FOR US, they have there SPEICIAL plans and HEALTH CARE]330,000,000 people.

That's why I like to do what I want, when I want, and how I want. I think about it this way, I could get dropped in the middle of a forest somewhere and become a cave man and who would really loose sleep over it? But a few family members and friends. Otherwise, I'm insignificant....just a one man show. So I might as well just fish my azz off, not give a crap about the stuff I can't change, burn the fuel I can afford in my boat, and catch and eat the fish, as long as I can.
Do what you want, when you want and how you want? Well brother that is coming to a halt over the next 4 years , Do you realize that if you make over a 130% of 10K [ That's $13K] YOU WILL HAVE TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE and if you don't , YOU will be FINED and get this .....The IRS is going to collect the FINE. So you say " Fine , I wont claim my money and tell them I didn't make it, RIGHT, well , the IRS aint dumb , they will know YOU made enough $$$ to make your HOUSE payment and YOUR boat payment and others and that WILL ad up to more that the minimum , They can, COUNT THE CHANGE .

And smile doing it.

[AlloyToy]

I could care less who's side you take here Dem or Rep .

I think the main focus here whether you agree or disagree as i do with what is now law, is that somebody has to pay for this. That somebody is every small company, large company, or tax paying individual in the United States.

As I said, we are already living this here in Mass, and yes fines are being put forth to individuals whom have no proof of insurance (you actually have to present state paperwork or you are fined monthly with very high interest rates).

John McCain is right on with the "sausage factor" in this law. Why in God's name should Christopher Dodd ( Sen.-D of CT) be allowed to write into this law a 100 million dollar allowance for the hospital he attends in CT, all on tax payer's dollar How much more "sausage" is written in to this new law And does the government really have the health of every individual in mind

There will be taxes on everything that the government considers "unhealthy". Smoking, drinking, candy, potato chips, ice cream, soda, fruit juice ect.... on top of all the other taxes we pay. I'm not sure about the rest of y'all but my kids are typical American kids. They enjoy soda, ice cream, candy, staying up late to watch a ball game, and all the things we enjoyed as youngsters. I go to work every day and bust my a$$ so my family can have what we have and do what we do. This is America where we have equal rights for all This means that the ones who sit back and "cry poor me, poor me, poor me another" have the same if not more opportunity to do exactly what you and I do....WORK!!!! PAY OUR BILLS, AND REWARD OURSELVES Once again "EQUAL RIGHTS"

Why in the hell should people that have made smart decisions in life, dragged their butts otta bed everyday and did their 8-12hr shifts, came home ate dinner and got up and did it all again, and again, and again....pay the price of the guy who has the same opportunity to do the same but chooses different avenues. So now I've worked hard and paid for my insurance and my families insurance my whole life, and I gotta pay for the next guy too??? Ummmm....... how about accountability Maybe something like "you are going to be required to have insurance therefore you are going to be required to work"

My big question is once this is a functioning system, and if business continues to slide down hill, will we continue to borrow money so "everyone" can be insured

Just like "cash for clunkers" I think the outboard is mounted on the bow instead of the stern

[Lucky Louie]

Yep Alloy and a lot of us have worked TWO jobs to try get a "Little extra" so we can afford to do some "Extra stuff" with our kids.

HEYALL I'm STILL working two jobs and I'm over the half century mark. Shift work at a power plant and a Sheriffs Deputy assigned to Uniform patrol. (Street Cop)

[Occams Razor]

Hi All !

Great post I started ! Love to see that everyone is pretty much on board the same idea.

I am in the same boat (though Alloy ) working all my life and I watch this crap go on and on.

Well I will tell ya something....I know one thing for sure ...you get two things involved in buisness or public Co's and you

can bet your azzzzzzz that it will just be a certain amount of time before its absolutely worthless !

Those two things are Lawyers and Accountants . One will sqeeze every penny until whatever you make, sell or provide

absolutely worthless and the lawyer will make sure there is absolutely no acountability what so ever ! I have watched it time

and time and time again. This whole health plan is a sham ! I have very good friends in Canada and yes they have

socialized health . Its works pretty well but you get in line ........but what they DON'T do is give every swingin **** that

decides to cross the boarder a piece of the system. You need to become a citezen and work for it for a time.

Now those of you that like this new proposal ......tell me why those that voted on it already ammended themselves rite

out of this faboulous plan ! They will have their own special plan......and you can bet your azzzzzzzzz it will be the same as

they have now. Now tell me ........its just that they felt guilty taking govt healthcare ? Bull**** ! they want no part of this

plan for themselves !

[trouty]

I have to be so very careful participating in any political discussion about the USA, because I'm not one of you, and anything that I might say that's critical perhaps of one particular policy or another - well it can so very easily be interpreted as being "anti American" (which i assure you i am not) - but I just don't have the right to be critical seeing i am looking on from the outside in.

What I can say is that we have a "similar issue" to your Mexican cheap labor influx.

Our illegal immigrants come from many country's via organized people smuggling in Indonesia.

We have "coast watch" (aerial surveillance) and naval patrols to try and intercept this deadly trade in human suffering.

The problem for us is - that these smuggled people apply for residency when they illegally reach our shores in rickety wooden indo fishing boats effectively jumping the cue of legal immigrants who have done the right thing - applied via one of our embassies...

So illegals are getting in front of legals - that just wrong.

I class myself as a WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant) - descendant of the English prisoners sent out here in 1788.

Now truthfully in Australia - there's only 23 million of us not nearing 300 million like there is in the USA.

BUT - when I go out on the road, or to the supermarket (or to the polls to vote) I am a minority in my own damned country...we have become so multi-cultural that there are more Indians, Pakistanis, Africans, Iraqi's, - as well as the early ww2 immigrants polish Italian Chinese and so it goes.

We have Asian street gangs fighting our outlaw biker gangs for goodness sakes. In my day it was the Bodgeys versus the Widgeys, and later the surfers (beach bums) versus the Bogans (hot rod car bums).

These days you get your throat slit or a broken glass shoved in your face at a nightclub or worse shot on the way home by the Asian gangs - and these are kids - from 14 - 19 or 20.

Our worlds changed just like yours is - there's a huge number of parallels between whats going on in our two countries.

I think Obama's bad for your country....my own opinion is that somewhere in Kenya a village is missing its village idiot.

Here's something will scare you if you have any accounting background (or can balance your checking account).

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Every man woman and child owes something like $350,000 US already and climbing if all govt and private debt is taken into account.

As other are pointing out, the debts so large there's no way to trade out of it. The mere interest on the debt has grown to unmanageable amounts.

I read yesterday that there will be another 6 million home foreclosures in the USA this year - that tent city's (slums reminiscent of the great depression of the 1920/30's) are springing up on the outskirts of American cities.

I feel sorry for the working moms and dads just trying to make ends meet & put food on the table for their kids and keep a roof over their heads.

In the 1920/30's great depressions - the wall street bankers and brokers - were throwing themselves outta the windows of their sky scrapers as they realized everything was gone - all they had worked their whole lives for.

Whats different this time is the bailout, trillions and trillion to buy toxic debt derivatives - worthless paper to keep the system afloat, the bankers and brokers have awarded themselves Billions in "performance bonuses", while non of that available cash has filtered down into the mortgage market where struggling US mom n pop family's are trying to keep their homes for their kids sake.

No the bankers who should be committing suicide for their failures after awarding themselves these huge obscene bonuses from the public purse, have NOW decided to take ownership by bank foreclosure on the very taxpayers who have just bailed them out!

They are the ones sending the bailiffs to evict average Americans from their homes for the profits to be made in foreclosing.

Something is definitely wrong in the USA, the worlds most wealthy nation when this is happening.
I believe nothing short of civil war will change it.
The guy who flew his Cessna into the IRS building was the spark to ignite such an uprising IMHO.
There will be more like him in my estimation - just average Joes - who stand and say enough's enough.

I find myself not in the least surprised at whats happening now.

I honestly believe the election of 2000, was a bloodless coup in your country and that your being run by "a secret government within the government". Sounds pretty far out there I admit - but has anyone else said that? Well - yes as a matter of fact, I can find 2 occasions where that's been said by well known Americans, so why not quote them. Ones a little obscure to find (but I know where to look).

"Jean Dixon, My life and Prophecies - Bantam books 1969 page 179".

"I have 'seen' a "government within a government" develop within the United States
within the last few years. Political families have always contributed significantly to the development of this nation. They each spawned their own political machine and often used it wisely. The Roosevelts, The Rockerfellers, The Lodges, The Kennedys, all had and have their influence on our countrys destiny.

However I 'see"this 'Government within a government' being controlled and financed by the well oiled (My bold emphasis - suggesting the Texas Bush Oil Cabal) political machine of one of our leading political families. With their eyes one the White house I see them discredit any man who occupies it without their approval, no matter how good his political programs may be.

They will - thru political intimidation, propaganda, and illegal sixth column activities - make every effort to show the nation that only their man, the one who heads their 'machine' has the sole right to occupy the White House. Their campaign is going to cause great harm to our nation both here and abroad.

I 'see' this group succeed in taking over defacto control of the country. They will give rise to an upheaval in our social structure as never before seen.

They will bring about increased racial unrest and great discontent. Foreign subversive elements will - as they did in the 1960's infiltrate the unruly factions and cause renewed fighting on the nations campuses and in racial ghettos.

All of the evil in the masses will be swept toward an unknown frenzy by this 'machine'.

I 'see' a member of this 'machine' ascend to power in NY City, enforcing new laws and regulations which will affect many households of that great metropolis.

The social and religious chaos generated by this political machine throughout the united states will prepare the nation for the coming of the prophet of the Antichrist. This political unit of the east will be the tool of the serpent in delivering the masses to him.

His domain will be the intellectual seduction of mankind. It means a mixture of political, philosophical and religious ideology that will throw the populations of the world into a deep crisis of faith in God.

As official forerunner, one of his first duties and responsibilities in readying the world for the advent of his "master" is to manipulate the the available propaganda machines. With teaching and propaganda, the prophet will cause people not merely to accept the Antichrist, but rather to desire him with positive enthusiasm, to create the conditions of his coming and to participate actively in in organizing the frightful and terrifying despotism of his 'world empire'.

OK that's prophecy from 50+ years ago that pretty accurately to an extent, predicted the time we are seeing develop in front of us right now.

How about a better known American who said something similar and a lot more recently!

Clinton at a DNC fundraiser in NYC 1996:

"There is a government within the government, and I am not in charge."

An interesting quote from Slick Willie!

So just who HAS "been in charge" ever since JFK was assassinated on that fateful day in Deally Plaza Texas?
Basically The Bush crime cabal - via first Bush 1 and then the Shrub. Bush 1 ended up in charge of the See Eye Ehh almost immediately after JFK was gone. But - who pulls their strings?
Here's a clue for you.

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."

- Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001 (i.e. less than a month after 9/11).

If you do not understand that Israels Mossad did the 9/11 twin towers take-down - then you can't make head or tail of whats going on in your nation up to now.

It's my belief - (and concern) that the USA is sliding toward war with Iran probably by May, OR the Israelis will drag you into a war with Iran by not later than November of this year! This was will likely descend into WW3 - a nuclear war where no one wins. So just who is America's biggest enemy or potential threat?
Lets go back and see what Jeanne Dixon said on that matter over 50 years ago, when no one was listening.

"The biggest danger the world faces in the future is Red China. When peace negotiations have seemingly concluded in the first quarter of the 21st century (my bold emphasis), Red China will show her teeth.

In the year 2025, Red China will have reached an economic and political stability sufficient to forge ahead and become the great conqueror.

In that year Red China will march into Russia. Conquer a large part of the USSR's northern area and will not stop until it has marched into Finland, Norway, Sweden & Denmark, stopping at the German Border.

It will not invade Western Europe. Bye that time however Russia will also have expanded her direct sphere of influence. It will no longer be limited to the countries of eastern Europe but will now include Libya Ethiopia, Iran & much of Africa.

This war of conquest will last from 2020 - 2037".

Note that......largely the USA is not mentioned in this prophecy?

Why would that be?

Could it be, that after the great WW3 nuclear exchange of 2015 - there's not much left of mainland USA, former world superpower, to fight anyone - especially the Red Chinese?
Is this the "peace negotiations" mentioned above? Lets face it - most of your indebtedness is already to the Red Chinese. Why would they want to fight you - they already almost own anything of any value in your nation - they would just be destroying their own assets.

I am sorry that this paints such an unpalatable picture for the USA.
I am not the one making the predictions - just the one posting them to bring them to your attention.
What you do about it is up to you, it is after all, your country not mine.

I did read something "encouraging" about USA and what happens there after 2015 to prevent what has transpired with this coup and subsequent takeover of the USA by a single small nation situated in the Middle East - from ever happening again.

There is a "civil war" in the United States that starts ~ 2005. That conflict flares up and down for 10 years. In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States, China and Europe. The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)...The European Union and China were also destroyed.

Russia is now our largest trading partner and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska.

(Get your future "capital city" land cheap now!)

The Constitution was changed after the war. We have 5 presidents that are voted in and out on different term periods. The vice president is the president of the senate, and they are voted separately.

5 groups of roughly 10 states each - elect a president to represent them, with all decisions reached on a majority rules basis on a rotating schedule.

Perhaps the days of a single puppet president making unilateral decisions on behalf of his corporate or foreign masters will end soon enough - but NOT without great expense to your nations people first. My concern for your nation is because of what i suspect might very well be its near term future and suffering and pain - all of it avoidable. But only avoidable if the tree of liberty is again watered with the blood of human sacrifice, as it was grown originally by your forefathers who gladly gave their blood to grow the tree of liberty for you & which until recently you enjoyed the fruits of.

Taxation without representation, is what you effectively have right now.
We know who controls your senate.
We know who controls your nation.
Only you can change it but will you?
I think not.
To me that's sad!

heck - what the hey - one last quote

avoid Washington DC at 3:45 AM on March 12, 2015.

Cheers

[welder]

Trouty, Your fine Brother , no problems here. We need to hear what goes on in the rest of the world and what a REAL PERSON from another country has to say about it .

I know when I talk about our problems I can get out of control some times [ Not like Jettywolf , who stays level headed all the way ] and trust me on this one , if I ever had a problem with some one on this board it would not be discussed on a open forum , we all have a opinion and we are all allowed to voice it as long as no one Board member or Sponsor is called out and bashed or put down.

Trouty , Sir, carry on.

[trouty]

Thanks Welder,
I've been banned in the past from places like THT for my politics.
Doesn't stop me of course. coz I'm thick headed and have a hide to match.

Cheers

[AlloyToy]

Well we finally got some reassuring news today. At least three of the largest health insurance providers here in Mass have filed a class action law suit against the state of Mass for the HUGE insurance premium increases that businesses across the state are faced with.....

They are basically saying "you want everyone insured then figure out a way to do it, but don't financially burden all the businesses in the commonwealth with the majority of the increases"

A positive step in the right direction

More to follow.....