Should I avoid this boat

General boating discussion
TN4thGen
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:05 am
2

Should I avoid this boat

#1

Post by TN4thGen »

 
 
 Hello! I have just discovered this forum, and I’m looking forward to learning more about aluminum boats.

I am shopping for a Marinette and I have come across a good deal on a boat that needs some work. The boat was used as a floating condo and the current owner had an electricity problem at their slip that caused electrolysis on the boat hull.

I am 8 hours away from this boat, so all I have are these pictures to show the damage. I plan to have a pre purchase survey performed to look for further corrosion. My inexperienced opinion was that this could be sand blasted, epoxy coated and repainted. Has anyone undertaken a project/repair like this? And would you recommend this project, or should I run away and find a boat in better condition?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Attachments
9503CFCA-7876-4F79-8DF7-A50BA1F8A37C.jpeg
9503CFCA-7876-4F79-8DF7-A50BA1F8A37C.jpeg (107.23 KiB) Viewed 2858 times
62EF0BCE-6AF4-4274-BC39-2FA82757F93A.jpeg
62EF0BCE-6AF4-4274-BC39-2FA82757F93A.jpeg (123.59 KiB) Viewed 2858 times
375FD5D6-D718-44D9-82B3-70E1AD7624DA.jpeg
375FD5D6-D718-44D9-82B3-70E1AD7624DA.jpeg (140.54 KiB) Viewed 2858 times
91FF743B-4C2F-4A64-BFDE-DBBCCF9263EA.jpeg
91FF743B-4C2F-4A64-BFDE-DBBCCF9263EA.jpeg (124.49 KiB) Viewed 2858 times
kmorin
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
Posts: 1735
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
15
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: Should I avoid this boat

#2

Post by kmorin »

TN4thGen
Welcome to the AAB.com Forum.
I can't see enough detail in the photos to be absolutely certain of my advice regarding the proposed boat but my first impression is; AVOID owning this boat. 

The level of damage done by using the hull as an anode - instead of having anodes to protect the hull is not easily determined without at least some paint removal.  The purpose being to actually see the bare surface of the metal of the hull to determine how deep the pitting is?  Without this level of work taken by current owner and photo's provided of extent of pitting- AVOID the hull.  If the owner is seriously interested in selling at market value- then having his own survey done is minimal honest prep for such a sale.

In one of the photos, the curve of the bow (forefoot) shows an extrusion at the keel and what may have been some sanding or buffing of the bottom just below the waterline?  Not sure on that assumption?  However, what strikes me the most drastically for the boat's repair is the V shaped extrusion that appears in the right of this photo shows this thick extrusion has actually lost enough metal to become 'serrated' on the leading edge?  If that is a correct understanding of the photo??? - then I'm very pessimistic about the rest of the hull.

If a survey is conducted?  Make sure you don't pay for it yourself!! and find out the surveyor's credentials, the number of welded boats they survey a year and if they've supervised a hull recovery project from problem, through all the steps (done by contractors/vendors) and then the finally refit hull? Quite unfortunately, many surveyors aren't familiar with welded aluminum boats and can't give a completely knowledgeable report due to lack of experience in the material.

IF not? (and its pretty rare they have much welded aluminum experience) then run - not just AVOID- but ask the current owner to delete your number from their phones!  Also, IMO, don't accept a contract to dispose of the hull unless you're paid cash; in advance! 

Just my take from what I can see in the slightly UN-focused photos.

Hope your search for a welded boat leads you to a hull in a little better condition?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin

 
kmorin
TN4thGen
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2022 8:05 am
2

Re: Should I avoid this boat

#3

Post by TN4thGen »

Kevin,

Thank you for your reply. You are correct, the owner did grind off the portion of the bow that you are referring to. I don’t think the current owner has gotten the hull surveyed. The boat was her father’s and he has passed away.

The boat is listed well below market value, that’s the only reason I was considering it.

I emailed those picture’s to a surveyor. He didn’t think the hull was beyond repair judging from the pictures, but he also wasn’t interested in surveying the boats at this time.  :doh:
 

I will continue my search elsewhere. 
kmorin
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
Posts: 1735
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
15
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: Should I avoid this boat

#4

Post by kmorin »

TN,
I figured your interest was because of a 'fire sale' price. So I'll remark about that for bit. And to offer those remarks I want to tell about one of my long time, close friends, who welded for me earlier in his career and has built or worked on welded aluminum boats for many years- nearly 40 that I know about.

In stead of buying new boats which he did only once or twice over the time we've known each other, including the one he bought from me- while he was welding in my shop in the '80's: he almost always bought used boats because they were a "good deal"! 

After doing this about three of four times, that is buying used boats to remodel them, I gave him a little exercise to see if he'd thought out what he was telling me?  What's the new cost?  and What do you get?  and counter with What's the used cost? and What do you get? 

When the truth was told, and he's still buying and building old boats into 'new' so it's not very convincing!  when you buy a 'rebuild' boat you end up sinking vast amounts of money to bring to a 'used' state!  At least a new boat is new for some time!! but a used repaired, rebuilt, remodeled boat is never new- unless y o u go to the keel and start over and then (!!!!) : why not go new or lightly used and still in good order?

When it comes to time sell- most often used boats that have had extensive remodel can't be financed- so the market value is lowered by remodeling!  At least new or recently new boats have the advantage of some financing because they have some demonstrable market value to a bank or credit union.

While the boat you're looking at may be a 'great price' - it's just you spending the seed money for a bunch more to "get her up to snuff".  I'd want to have the survey in hand, then approach the welding shops or painting/blasting services, and due to the unseen bilges being a potential problem I'd want to see the repair estimates before getting too far involved with what may look like  good deal- also one surveyor, at least, doesn't even want to get involved!!  All they do is evaluate for the buyer and seller- and lender & insurance if involved- so to decline their review seems to me they don't know metal boats or the do and that last is worse!

Just my take- and of course I'm not there or looking at a full set of images to help understand her condition.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
 
kmorin
Chaps
Donator '09
Posts: 2246
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:19 am
16
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Should I avoid this boat

#5

Post by Chaps »

I'll stick my neck out and say this boat looks bad but might not necessarily be a boat to avoid without having a closer look than what is provided by the photos.  The main concern is whether there is serious pitting or is it primarily just paint failure associated with galvanic activity?

Marinette's are equipped with long strip anodes bolted to the keel and they should be made of aluminum. There are instances where owners have installed anode strips made of magnesium which are over-reactive in any waters other than clean & very fresh. This over protection can cause paint issues as in the pics but there won't typically be any pitting of the metal, at least until the mag anodes have been totally used up.

On the other hand, anode strips made from zinc are barely reactive at all and will allow the hull to be its own anode, which will cause similar paint failure but also possibly pitting on the hull metal. If so then one must determine how serious the pitting is.

It is also possible that the owner (or a yard) applied copper bottom paint to the boat which will also cause paint blistering as seen in the pics.

An important thing to realize is that galvanic corrosion can be arrested and further pitting prevented on an aluminum boat.  So if the actual damage to the metal is nominal then a proper sandblast, epoxy primer and non-copper antifoul job along with install of proper anodes will typically be all that is required to put the boat back into service and no further corrosion will occur.


Oh, I found this bit of info published years ago by Marinette regarding hull protection on these boats which I would add that these principles generally also apply to all aluminum boats for the most part.  The alloys suggested for anodes are similar to the mil-spec aluminum anodes that can be purchased today at ships stores and online.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Anode specifications for Marinette aluminum boats (Thanks to John Althouse of Marinette, Inc for permissions)

Material:
Although anodes are commonly referred to as “zincs” the proper anode for use on the Marinette hull is actually a specially developed aluminum alloy with the designation of KA90 or SEALLOY 150. These aluminum anodes because of their material make up and the processing that they go through, give the same protection level as magnesium. KA 90 and SEALLOY 150 were the anodes that the boats were supplied with from the factory. Magnesium can be used, but only in freshwater and it will deplete at a much faster rate than the aluminum anode possibly leaving the hull unprotected if not monitored closely. Commonly available zinc is too close on the galvanic scale to provide adequate protection and should not be used. High purity zinc can be used but it is difficult to find and does not provide as much protection as the aluminum anode.

Attachment:
Anodes should be bolted to bare metal with Stainless Steel bolts.
Do not use wire brushes made of steel or copper alloys to strip the aluminum. (Ed. Pieces of the brush are cathodic, and don't use them in the bilge area. Wire-brushing by hand with a stainless steel wire brush is sufficient to break up the oxide. Mechanical cleaning of aluminum via power wire-brushing or grinding is not advisable because of the low melting point.)

Anode requirements:

26’, 28’, 29.5’
30” on each side of keel
12” on each trim tab
6” on each rudder

Total single engine 7’ 6”
Total twin engine 8’ 0”

32’
36” on each side of keel
12” on each trim tab
6” on each rudder

Total 9’ 0”

37’, 39’, 41’, 44’
54” on each side of keel
12” on each trim tab
6” on each rudder

Total 12’ 0”

KA90/SEALLOY 150 anodes are available through Marinette Yachts 906-789-2248.
 
 
 
 
1987 24' LaConner pilothouse workboat, 225 Suzuki
Image
please view and like: https://www.facebook.com/bottompainting/
kmorin
Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
Posts: 1735
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
15
Location: Kenai, Alaska

Re: Should I avoid this boat

#6

Post by kmorin »

Chaps,
What is your impression of the keel extrusion on the forefoot?  Although I can't zoom to very close image w/o some pixelation; the extent of the pitting seems to involve the weld face and the entire extrusion? I that a picture of protruding VKB between the two bottom plates? OR is a V extrusion into which the two bottom panels' keel rabbit line are inserted?  Either way- the corrosion is so extreme I'm sure not confident of the rest of the hull!

'F93A.jpeg this is the image I'm concerned about?  I'd say that showed extreme excavation of the keel extrusion/bar and the seam welds at least on the side in the image?

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK

 
kmorin
Chaps
Donator '09
Posts: 2246
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:19 am
16
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Should I avoid this boat

#7

Post by Chaps »

Well you forced me to find my reading glasses Kevin and take a closer look . . . and it's still hard to tell for sure. The forefoot could be rough from beaching or intentional grounding . . . or some poor investigative grinding. I get a fair amount of nasty looking hulls like this one that even in person (not just photos) look very suspect of significant corrosion damage but after sandblasting off the bubbled paint and oxides we end up finding a reasonably usable boat bottom.

On the other hand it often goes the other way where blast cleaning reveals far more significant issues than had been expected from a first look at haulout. Blasting really scours out the soft spots that otherwise might have then been mistakenly painted over post survey however at times something looks like it could be bad but if there really isn't a problem blasting will also confirm that, it's the truth teller.

Anyone surveying aluminum boats with any regularity should be prepared to do some non-destructive spot blasting in the suspect locations. Btw the extrusions are oftentimes not as corrosion resistant as the hull plating which forces them into the role of acting as a sacrificial anode particularly when the designated hull anodes are ineffective (zinc for instance) or have totally wasted away.
1987 24' LaConner pilothouse workboat, 225 Suzuki
Image
please view and like: https://www.facebook.com/bottompainting/
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic