Pacific Repairs & Modifications

Mods and custom builds
AlloyToy
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Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#1

Post by AlloyToy »

Well, I keep it as short as possible :mrgreen:

My boat had "sprongs" (oil canning) in the floor on either side of the helm station. This is a common problem on any aluminum boat, and can carefully be repaired. My decision was to bring the boat to Jack Winninghoff on the N. shore of Boston in Rowley Mass. I met with his welder Bill Stone who in detail went over the repair, what they have encountered, and the best approach at the repair. He was able to score the floor across the sprong but not thru. He went about .150 deep leaving a thin skin of material between the floor sheet and the bilge. He then inserted a 6" blower hose into the floor hatch located above the fuel cell to extract any potential fumes. When all potential fumes were evacuated he layed a bead of weld along the score in the floor thus pulling the two sides of the sheet together and eliminating the sprong :thumbsup:

Now here is the most important part :!: He decided to remove the boat from the trailer to do the additional work I wanted done. Cell phone rings "we got problems" :!: Where the boat sat on the front bunks/carpet it had begun to corrode the under skin of the boat about the size of a softball on either side and about 1/8" deep :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: Not Good!! He then took a small grinder and ground out all the corrosion and began to fill, grind, fill, grind until the void was full of new weld. Then he ground it smooth again to match the Hull bottom. I have never really heard of this potential problem with bunk trailers from ANYONE :!: :!: I am writing this to inform all of you to check the hull sections you never see....between the bunks and the hull :idea: Had I not brought the boat to Winninghoff Boats this problem may have not been caught until the hole was completely thru

At the same time I always liked the looks of the rub rails that many builders install sown the sides of the hull. We cut 2" schedule 40 alum pipe in half using a skill saw and installed, welded, & capped the rails on either side :thumbsup: I also installed a couple front mounted rod holders which I whipped out at the shop in the front roof area for spinning rods while tossing plugs at Charlie. And the big change in an effort to knock down spray while 30 miles out we installed a reverse chine spray rail along the bow of the boat. It will be interesting to see the effect it will have and how functional it will be (test result will follow :mrgreen: ). I plan on running here today :thumbsup:

Picked the boat up last night. Jack, Bill, and I shot the breeze for hours :!: He ran back and forth pulling out blueprints of boats he's built, and told all his "war stories" of things he's built and projects he's worked on.....quite interesting to say the least. I thank them for finding the potential future issue the most with the bottom corrosion. This is the difference in using a builder for a repair and just any welding shop. Next will be adding starboard to the front bunks, maybe with carpet over them.......re-applying non skid on the floor repair sections, applying Nyalic to the new rails and where the welding burned the existing....then getting her bloody :thumbsup:

It's your investment....protect it :beer:
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SJD
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#2

Post by SJD »

Thanks for the post. Work looks to be of very high quality. Good to know craftsmen like that are still out there. Can you describe the oil canning phenomenon a little? I am not sure what you mean by that. Was the corrosion you picture on the exterior of the hull? I think that is due to moisture and salt from the bunks in constant contact with the hull while out of water, which is not protected by the zincs. I have an O5 pacific used in salt stored on trailer with rollers and have not seen this problem. Is that boat a 23 or 26 footer? I am considering touching up my nyalic and non-skid let us know how that all goes.. Do you mind revealing the cost of work like that?
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21ftcc
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#3

Post by 21ftcc »

Its funny you posted your finding of the trailer bunk problem and the corrosion the under skin. I just swam under my boat two weekends ago looking for this same problem. I didn't find any. Plus I was checking my rivets. Maybe its because I dunk my boat into a local lake and run the outboard after every trip. Any local lakes to you AT?

I think Nate had almost the same issue with his bunks, but it didn't get to his boat.
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AlloyToy
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#4

Post by AlloyToy »

Actually just started submerging the boat and running the motor. Use to just hose it off and use the FW flush on the motor.....not anymore :idea:

Yous should see the look on the faces of people when I back my boat into the little pond down the road :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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21ftcc
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#5

Post by 21ftcc »

I bet the same look I get when we leave a filets for the foxes and other wild life. I'm a kinda conservationist nothing should go to waste. I never had my head in this mood until my city starting charging to taste bags at 4 for 7.50. I went from 2 bags of trash a week to 1 bi-weekly and 4 boxes of recycling.
Last edited by 21ftcc on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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aluminumdreamer
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#6

Post by aluminumdreamer »

The rub rails look sick! Did they have any of there boats around to look at. There is a guy that lives near me that owns two Winninghoffs. Lucky bastard!

Looking good, good luck with the fishing.

Nate
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21ftcc
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#7

Post by 21ftcc »

Two?? he must be rich
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#8

Post by welder »

The bunk issue has been talked about before by Nat and CGrand, do NOT use pressure treated lumber ANYWHERE on or under a ALLOY boat .

For bunks the best thing to use [ Lumber ] is Cypress and only cover the top and sides with carpet, leave the bottom un covered so it will drain and dry.

I am REALLY DIGGING the rub rails :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Very nice job on the repairs and extra goodies , those guys do good work.
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#9

Post by kmorin »

ABB'ers
Just a reminder about carpet on trailers, there should be NO carpet anywhere on a metal boat trailer bunk- that's what causes the poultice corrosion cells you guys are experiencing. And we have discussed this issue here, at least once that I recall. Use hard plastic sheet bunk covers or use vinyl floor runner materail with raised ridges or grooves with edges and only fasten to the bunk underneath with staples or screw strips.

Anytime you can leave trapped, limited volumes of water next to the aluminum for any period of time, it will loose oxygen to the aluminum- then the deareated water becomes acidic and that creates the poultice of acid that eats the alloy. As the bunks don't get rinsed well, even when immersed on launch and landing they remain 'acidic' and the problem will accelerate.

[IF you absolutely HAVE to have carpet on a boat made of materiel that will stop medium caliber hand guns' projectiles; will bounce of rocks at high speeds; and is generally not clear why carpet is there- when we think about it (????) THEN AT LEAST sprinkle the entire bunk with baking soda or some other household base, like ammonia, when the boat is off the carpet. ]

Plastic sheet bunk covers are more rigid and they drain and don't create the same covered wet cell areas.

Regarding spray rails, lots of builders/designers use a reverse chine to get this rail's function AND to help during construction to hold the bottom shape, in plan view, with a permanent part of of the hull.

'Oil canning' or panel flexure in the deck can be diminished radically by using cambered frames (rolled or arched) for the deck framing but they are more work to fit. The age old builders' question is to move the deck plate up one thickness (ie. move from 0.125" up to 0.160" or 0.160" up to 0.187") or to increase framing by reducing the spacing of deck transverse or longitudinals? Both methods will reduce the potential for flex in the deck panels one by making the panels thicker and the second my making the thinner panels smaller and therefore "proportionally" thicker for their size.

Taking a 'tuck' in the deck panel is a good way to solve this in some panels, but slicing the deck in that location and lowering a flat bar into the spot and edge welding that cut/kerf full catching the edge of the bar, the two sides of the cut and the level that weld is another reliable method of stiffening a flexing panel.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#10

Post by SJD »

I've never heard of oil panning or deck flexure with a pacific before. Anyone else had this issue? The deck thickness is 3/16" (0.190) seems like it would be pretty unusual.
AlloyToy
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#11

Post by AlloyToy »

INCREDIBLE RESULTS


Let me start by saying that I was that kid who took his Christmas gifts apart on Christmas night. Having the gift was not enough for me. I needed to know what made it work.... :mrgreen:

Wife and I launched at the top of the salt pond. Ran the boat wide open to get a feel for how the boat would react before heading out front into the wind against the tide situation. She handled fine, planed in half the time, and threw spray at about 45 degrees of each side a solid 5 feet. Headed out the West gap of Pt. Judith harbor of refuge to be met with a gusting wind 15-20 and 2-3 footer stacked tightly. Pushed the throttle up and could not believe the difference the way the water reacted. Slowed down to trolling speed and again noticed a substantial difference. Landing off the crest of one wave to the next was like landing on a down pillow. No slamming, and minimal water over the bow :thumbsup: Very impressed to say the least. My wife who loves the boat said "it's like having a new boat" :mrgreen: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The true test will be the next offshore trip when the afternoon winds pickup, but there is no doubt in my mind that this was an improvement to the hull design.


Kevin great post!! :thumbsup: I must have missed it if it was mentioned before. I applied some 1/2 starboard to the front bunks. The wood is washed out so I can't tell what it is. My BOS for the trailer says cypress, and the carpet is only on three sides.

Nate thanks for your kind remarks :thumbsup:
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AlloyToy
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#12

Post by AlloyToy »

SJD wrote:I've never heard of oil panning or deck flexure with a pacific before. Anyone else had this issue? The deck thickness is 3/16" (0.190) seems like it would be pretty unusual.
Been told it can happen on any alum boat. Mine happened to be right at the helm. When I stepped there it was a big wobble and a royal PITA to be honest.....IT WAS GETTING FIXED!!!!
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#13

Post by SJD »

That's a great report amazing how a seemingly minor modification could make such a difference. Boat looks awesome. I will be interested in how it works offshore and any fuel efficiency change also. I assume top speed will be higher?? Could you post contact info for the guy who did the work and rough numbers re cost for these modifications?
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#14

Post by S L Dave »

See...I knew that rub rails could be welded on post factory completion. Looks fantastic!!


Yes , ANYTHING can be done to a Alloy hull , just bring MONEY. :mrgreen:
"Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right."
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AlloyToy
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#15

Post by AlloyToy »

Les & Dave Thanks!! :clap: It's only money SL Dave....just start up the printer and make more :mrgreen:

SJD......I'll PM you all the contact info........I paid for the R & D so you should be good to go :mrgreen: You are welcome to run my boat to see how it feels compared to your own boat before you spend the $$$$$

It's a noticeable difference :thumbsup: For the wife to notice :idea: It's a differnece :mrgreen:
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#16

Post by pjay9 »

Nice report and interesting comments...thx ALL! Capt PJ
PS gives me ideas that just takes money! :thumbsup:
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#17

Post by clambo »

AT the rub rails and chine look Wiked Pissah! Oops my New England slipped out! Just curious if you got any input from the manufacturer of your boat, such as how to fix it or why it happened? Work looks great and I'm jealous as hell, need to see in person may have to do that to my boat. :thumbsup:
AlloyToy
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#18

Post by AlloyToy »

Hey Mike.......No I emailed Pacific last week and have not heard back.......

Read the post that Kevin posted....pretty informative :thumbsup: I'm glad I caught it when I did and I hope that anyone else with bunks reads this post :thumbsup:

On a side note the starboard is not a slippery as I would have thought it to be......actually works quite well :thumbsup:
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#19

Post by goatram »

AT
Do you have a close up of the reverse chine pleas? Width of the material used?
I talked to Chaps about the spray I was taking over my bow and He brought up that I could add a 3 to 4" reverse chine back to my Windshield location on my extrusion that connects the bottom plate to the sides. Alaska Copper and Brass out here in Seattle has the half pipe in stock 6063 alloy 2.5" dia. in 20' sections that is another project that I be doing this Fall. I got the stick already awaiting for time to get it done.
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#20

Post by AlloyToy »

Hey goatram,

The material used was 5086 3/16" thick. It is 2 1/2" at the widest part and follows the "chine extrusion" that Pacific uses to weld the sides of the boat to the bottom....IT'S SOLID :!: It tapers out just aft of the pilot house, and tapers in to the widest part off the bow eye. They radius-ed the edge for obvious reasons with a round over bit. It is pitched about 10-15 degrees. It is skip welded along the bottom and solid welded along the top.

Here is a cell phone picture....not sure how clear it will be ....hope this helps :arrow:
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AlloyToy
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#21

Post by AlloyToy »

Better shot
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goatram
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#22

Post by goatram »

2.5" wide and it keeps the spray off of the windows?
I like it! thanks for posting that
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21ftcc
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#23

Post by 21ftcc »

Looks like something I have on my boat. It only sticks out about 2" and is a triangle shape
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#24

Post by Occams Razor »

Alloy:

I wrote a fairly long post on this very problem you found with your hulls bottom corrosion on the bunk area. I don't know

where it is, maybe Welder can find it, but in short is the creation of a very large battery. You have the hull, the trailer and

the wet bunk as acid. The bunk being soaked (wood and carpet) create a electrical connection via the wet bunk and you end

up with what you have. I found the very same thing about 7 months after I got my boat. You have to electrically isolate the hull

from the trailer . Those wet bunks conduct readily and you see the results. So here is your fix and I hope everyone reads

this post this time ! (http://www.surfixinc.com/surfix_trailer_bunkslides.html) :thumbsup:
AlloyToy
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Re: Pacific Repairs & Modifications

#25

Post by AlloyToy »

goatram wrote:2.5" wide and it keeps the spray off of the windows?
I like it! thanks for posting that
goatram, keep in mind a couple things:

The extrusion Pacific uses sticks out about 1 1/8" already. We welded to it so the total projection is more like 3 5/8"

Also it doesn't catch all the spray I would say around the upper 80% plus range....however I have not run her offshore yet, but will comment on the fact that the wind where I boat blows SW everyday :!: I tested in a wind against the tide and it was a very noticeable improvement to the ride and to how the boat landed, increased speed, increased planing time and especially noticed how the bow felt compared to before the modification :thumbsup:

21ftcc that little triangle on those boats is a huge help......had the same on a previous boat


Occam...PM sent :?: Thanks for the info :thumbsup:
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