I have been looking to upgrade my 15 hull lately to an 17-18 foot bayrunner, klamath deep v boat. The search continues. seems it will never end..
I dont really understand why lightweight aluminum boats with a deep v are not found or made anymore in smaller sizes (16-18). And why they are made today full of decking that increases the dry hull weight by 500 pounds. Pacifics lightest boat (great boat) is 1000 pounds dry?? Lowes Fish ski is minimum 1000 lbs and is 16 feet in length??
Is there no need for a bayrunner type boat anymore, one that is stripped to the bare essentials and is super lightweight with a deep V bow? And sorry but starcraft, lund, crestliner, or lowe I do not consider as ocean going boats. Just my opinion.
For now I am just going to hold on to my small 15 bayrunner and hope one day i can buy a 20+ year boat for too much money
well my search for a bigger hull has ended for now
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larrybayrunner
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:26 pm
- 15
- Location: san diego
or this one:
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2001- ... a-93594606
This one is really sweet. I owned a 2002 17' Bayrunner before I got the 23' - it actually measured out to 18' and was a solid ride.
Like I said, keep lookin', they're out there.
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2001- ... a-93594606
This one is really sweet. I owned a 2002 17' Bayrunner before I got the 23' - it actually measured out to 18' and was a solid ride.
Like I said, keep lookin', they're out there.
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JETTYWOLF
- Contributor/donator/Location Nazi
- Posts: 6074
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:11 pm
- 16
- Your location: JACKSONVILLE FL USA
- Location: Tree-hugger, USA...they call it FLA.
where are you that you want a boat so light?
Your have no "location" added, to profile page.
But let me guess, "westcoast?"
Cuz no one here (right coast) has ever heard of such a craft.
Except us east coast AAB'ers....we're "lear-ned" :lol: :lol:
Which cracks me up what a huge difference there is in philosophies.
Welcome.
(Hell doesn't Mojo has a small tin boat? Does he ever use it??)
Your have no "location" added, to profile page.
But let me guess, "westcoast?"
Cuz no one here (right coast) has ever heard of such a craft.
Except us east coast AAB'ers....we're "lear-ned" :lol: :lol:
Which cracks me up what a huge difference there is in philosophies.
Welcome.
(Hell doesn't Mojo has a small tin boat? Does he ever use it??)
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larrybayrunner
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:26 pm
- 15
- Location: san diego
thx for the replies
I updated my profile and yes I am a leftcoaster. These boats are perfect for san diego as I live about 5 minutes from the launch in mission bay, from go time to boat time it takes me about 30 minutes from the door to water. Believe it or not, I tow my 1500 pound rig with a 4 cylinder 4x4 van. I would not consider any other boat as i can tow with ease and fit me my wife and dog in the boat comfortably.
Iv'e only had my bayrunner one season and I am already upgrading to a bigger boat. and Yes, I have the alloy bug.
Iv'e only had my bayrunner one season and I am already upgrading to a bigger boat. and Yes, I have the alloy bug.
BR-15 Bayrunner with 40 Yami
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JETTYWOLF
- Contributor/donator/Location Nazi
- Posts: 6074
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:11 pm
- 16
- Your location: JACKSONVILLE FL USA
- Location: Tree-hugger, USA...they call it FLA.
Man, I'd go 19 or 20 Pacific....You are like me. I go 4 minutes to bait shop, add another minute to boat ramp. I can smell the Mercury 2-stroke fumes from my back yard. And almost hear them too.
My dad tows up to 3 giant BMW motor cycles all over the country sometimes with a 4 cylinder Isuzu Rodeo
The problem I see with those lil tinnies is they have no room in them.
Maybe it's just me...being a larger individual and a person who loves 8+ plus long rods too. I have to have room.
And with my 26 Pacific I have more than some non-alloy 31 footers, but at the same time do not sacrifice ride, or shallow draft'ness...important to us Floridains. In the winter I commonly sit in less than 3 feet on a falling tide.
If I wasn't in the "carrying all sizes of people biz" this is the boat I'd have, less the green Army paint. No ducks here worth shooting except water turkey's.
A 4 cylinder must be purty wore out not to pull a 19-20 Pacific for 10 minutes a day......but for me it's worth the space, ride for that size of boat.
But hey....thats just me. I need me some battlin room.
My dad tows up to 3 giant BMW motor cycles all over the country sometimes with a 4 cylinder Isuzu Rodeo
The problem I see with those lil tinnies is they have no room in them.
Maybe it's just me...being a larger individual and a person who loves 8+ plus long rods too. I have to have room.
And with my 26 Pacific I have more than some non-alloy 31 footers, but at the same time do not sacrifice ride, or shallow draft'ness...important to us Floridains. In the winter I commonly sit in less than 3 feet on a falling tide.
If I wasn't in the "carrying all sizes of people biz" this is the boat I'd have, less the green Army paint. No ducks here worth shooting except water turkey's.
A 4 cylinder must be purty wore out not to pull a 19-20 Pacific for 10 minutes a day......but for me it's worth the space, ride for that size of boat.
But hey....thats just me. I need me some battlin room.
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85MonarkVC
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:38 am
- 15
- Location: Central Florida, USA
Here are some other smaller plate alloy plate boats built solid:
http://www.workskiff.com/wspages/console.htm
http://www.workskiff.com/wspages/console.htm
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IN2DEEP
- WON Super Star Donator '08, '09, '10, '11
- Posts: 638
- Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:07 pm
- 16
- Location: So. Calif.
Oh man, another Bayrunner owner. Welcome!
Have you checked the boats that this company offers?
If it were me, I'd go with a 20'+ hull
http://www.gregorboats.com/index.htm
Scott
Have you checked the boats that this company offers?
If it were me, I'd go with a 20'+ hull
http://www.gregorboats.com/index.htm
Scott
1989 22' Walkaround Cuddy Bayrunner
2001 115 Merc. 4 stroke/1988 9.9 Yamaha 4 stroke kicker
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larrybayrunner
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:26 pm
- 15
- Location: san diego
gregor and pacific are great boats, I just dont have 10K to spend on a hull, I wish I did, I have about 5-6K to spend and that is if I sell my boat engine and all. I am looking for a used one, they are out there especially with the season ending, must be patient and have cash ready. I have done so well on my curent boat value wise the last thing I want to do is blow it and jump on something that may cost money.
Ill get there someday, in the meantime took my little Br 15 out again yesterday and had her up to 38 mile per hour.
I ran a can of seafoam in my engine crankcase and gas and burned a whole tank, engine seems smoother on the high end for sure. good stuff that seafoam.
Ill get there someday, in the meantime took my little Br 15 out again yesterday and had her up to 38 mile per hour.
I ran a can of seafoam in my engine crankcase and gas and burned a whole tank, engine seems smoother on the high end for sure. good stuff that seafoam.
BR-15 Bayrunner with 40 Yami
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kmorin
- Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
- Posts: 1761
- Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
- 15
- Your location: Kenai, AK
- Location: Kenai, Alaska
Scantlings and Boat Shape and All-up Displacement
larrybayrunner,
I don't pretend to know why the various formed-boat manufacturing companies make design decisions - so I know you'll understand this is just supposition about the shapes available.
Ride, or comfort while running, isn't just defined by shape, although jon-boats are never going to be smooth rides at 25 mph in a 3' head sea.
All-up displacement, boat, engine, crew, gear, fuel; all-up displacement, makes a big contribution to the ride aspect of performance. Bottom shapes that are deeply V'd have to sit at a deeper point on the hull, at rest, in order to avoid being so tender they'd roll gunwale under if not for the displacement of the boat.
The sharp V will give better ride for the given displacement but what happens if you add a "sharp" 20 degree bottom deadrise to a boat that only weighs a few hundred pounds? That boat would lay still with a permanent list; where the hull would float with one chine wet and the keel as the other chine an the opposite chine would be dry! This laying over can happen to displacement hulls without ballast, or newly build displacement hulls without their ballast installed.
So my conclusion as to why the press formed boat builders don't build more sharp bottoms in the shorter sizes is; the V would take more added weight to float level.
Also, if the skiff were very light wt, even a V won't keep her from pounding - it would just take some of the edge off. Last but not least if a 15' had the same V or warp as a 18' without increasing the wt by a correct, but not linear, proportion- she's 'rear up' or pitch the bow high when it came up on step. This is because of the lack of balance of the lifting vector and up with the hull's displacement downward.
Some hull's like this will also wander as the boat's waterplane becomes oddly shaped because the lack of displacement allows the bow to pitch so high.
I suspect these factors contribute to the designs that get marketed by the production builders. The 'smaller' the skiff in LOA combined with the extremely light scantlings, the more all these factors will show up if the hull's proportions are not maintained in balance with all up displacement.
The boat's shape is only one factor in how they behave, surely a very important one, but there are other contributions from displacement that effect the performance. Stability is probably one of the main marketing factors that limits a smaller, more V'd boat. They're more tender than others and will require more skill to operate which the builder can't control - therefore the more shapely small boat is more of a risk for the builder to make and sell.
Cheers,
I don't pretend to know why the various formed-boat manufacturing companies make design decisions - so I know you'll understand this is just supposition about the shapes available.
Ride, or comfort while running, isn't just defined by shape, although jon-boats are never going to be smooth rides at 25 mph in a 3' head sea.
All-up displacement, boat, engine, crew, gear, fuel; all-up displacement, makes a big contribution to the ride aspect of performance. Bottom shapes that are deeply V'd have to sit at a deeper point on the hull, at rest, in order to avoid being so tender they'd roll gunwale under if not for the displacement of the boat.
The sharp V will give better ride for the given displacement but what happens if you add a "sharp" 20 degree bottom deadrise to a boat that only weighs a few hundred pounds? That boat would lay still with a permanent list; where the hull would float with one chine wet and the keel as the other chine an the opposite chine would be dry! This laying over can happen to displacement hulls without ballast, or newly build displacement hulls without their ballast installed.
So my conclusion as to why the press formed boat builders don't build more sharp bottoms in the shorter sizes is; the V would take more added weight to float level.
Also, if the skiff were very light wt, even a V won't keep her from pounding - it would just take some of the edge off. Last but not least if a 15' had the same V or warp as a 18' without increasing the wt by a correct, but not linear, proportion- she's 'rear up' or pitch the bow high when it came up on step. This is because of the lack of balance of the lifting vector and up with the hull's displacement downward.
Some hull's like this will also wander as the boat's waterplane becomes oddly shaped because the lack of displacement allows the bow to pitch so high.
I suspect these factors contribute to the designs that get marketed by the production builders. The 'smaller' the skiff in LOA combined with the extremely light scantlings, the more all these factors will show up if the hull's proportions are not maintained in balance with all up displacement.
The boat's shape is only one factor in how they behave, surely a very important one, but there are other contributions from displacement that effect the performance. Stability is probably one of the main marketing factors that limits a smaller, more V'd boat. They're more tender than others and will require more skill to operate which the builder can't control - therefore the more shapely small boat is more of a risk for the builder to make and sell.
Cheers,
kmorin
Here you go, this one is getting awfully close to what you are looking for.
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/boa/847105100.html
http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/boa/847105100.html
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JETTYWOLF
- Contributor/donator/Location Nazi
- Posts: 6074
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:11 pm
- 16
- Your location: JACKSONVILLE FL USA
- Location: Tree-hugger, USA...they call it FLA.
Okay.......I'm lost :shock:
All I know is when I look at these style skiffs (unless its 23+) I'd need alot more move about room. One of the best attributes of my boat (lets say as an example) is that I can walk taking many steps from the stern to the bow and don't have to turn sideways, and neither does the boat (lean over)
You know all the cool stuff...Most people just know what they know by comparisons, thats all. My ole NON-ALLOY boat was great...but I could never walk past the console, I had to shuffle.
I anchor alot, (as many as 20 times day...which automatically means it's one tuff day of fishing), so a stable boat is everything to me. I hate being thrown from side to side, and with 5 people lets say on the boat that turns into a punker band dance club.
Boats with all the room in front of the console or cabin, don't cut it either.
I know of no one who trolls, casts, or bottom fishes off the bow all day long. So there has to be more fishing room in the stern.
Or as I call it...Ball room dancing space, where we manage what we do..
I looked high and low for a non-alloy boat that had these attributes. And couldn't find one.
And now to this day I get on any non-alloy boat, in the 20-30' length and it feels too deep in the water, heavy and depending on the maker, like we could sink at any time. Probably because I ride so much higher in the water, and these boats are so deeper in the water.
I may have given up something in my ride, compared to a go fast non-alloy boat, but I'm poor, so I never go fast or try to drink fuel like a cold beer on a 110 degree day.
How people cannot understand the differences is beyond me. Add, tuffness, fuel economy, functionality, and build whatever you like (which YOU sir are an example)
Compared to having to make a mold, build the boat twice, with no customizations at the last minute....how does one live that way?
"....how does one live that way?" Live, fish, it's all the same thing to me.
Now thats funny!!!! :lol:
I like that we have a techno guy here. Plus, the build and boat pics are great. Just need more!
All I know is when I look at these style skiffs (unless its 23+) I'd need alot more move about room. One of the best attributes of my boat (lets say as an example) is that I can walk taking many steps from the stern to the bow and don't have to turn sideways, and neither does the boat (lean over)
You know all the cool stuff...Most people just know what they know by comparisons, thats all. My ole NON-ALLOY boat was great...but I could never walk past the console, I had to shuffle.
I anchor alot, (as many as 20 times day...which automatically means it's one tuff day of fishing), so a stable boat is everything to me. I hate being thrown from side to side, and with 5 people lets say on the boat that turns into a punker band dance club.
Boats with all the room in front of the console or cabin, don't cut it either.
I know of no one who trolls, casts, or bottom fishes off the bow all day long. So there has to be more fishing room in the stern.
Or as I call it...Ball room dancing space, where we manage what we do..
I looked high and low for a non-alloy boat that had these attributes. And couldn't find one.
And now to this day I get on any non-alloy boat, in the 20-30' length and it feels too deep in the water, heavy and depending on the maker, like we could sink at any time. Probably because I ride so much higher in the water, and these boats are so deeper in the water.
I may have given up something in my ride, compared to a go fast non-alloy boat, but I'm poor, so I never go fast or try to drink fuel like a cold beer on a 110 degree day.
How people cannot understand the differences is beyond me. Add, tuffness, fuel economy, functionality, and build whatever you like (which YOU sir are an example)
Compared to having to make a mold, build the boat twice, with no customizations at the last minute....how does one live that way?
"....how does one live that way?" Live, fish, it's all the same thing to me.
Now thats funny!!!! :lol:
I like that we have a techno guy here. Plus, the build and boat pics are great. Just need more!
Jettywolf,
I couldn't agree with you more. Every aspect you mentioned I was looking for as well - it always seems so odd to me when I see a boat with the console really far back, who fishes from the front?
The only difference is I needed even lighter weight. Those Pacific's are one sweet ride but they are still pretty heavy. My Bayrunner was a real find - for me - 23' long and 8'6" wide with the center console slightly forward giving me ample space to dance around in the cockpit while fishing. There is plenty of room to move around and she is pretty stable while the modified V and high bow really help with the ride. Of course, with the lighter weight I can still get bounced around a bit but I do have to get across that soft sand to launch.
There's no perfect boat, or situation, for everyone. What I wouldn't give to be able to back my trailer down a ramp and just float off. But then I wouldn't get to live where I do. That's what makes these forums so damn interesting, don't you t hink, taking different ideas and putting them together until you find what works best for the way you use your boat.
I'm gonna go fishing tomorrow, the tuna and dorado are only a few miles offshore. I'll let you know how it goes.
I couldn't agree with you more. Every aspect you mentioned I was looking for as well - it always seems so odd to me when I see a boat with the console really far back, who fishes from the front?
The only difference is I needed even lighter weight. Those Pacific's are one sweet ride but they are still pretty heavy. My Bayrunner was a real find - for me - 23' long and 8'6" wide with the center console slightly forward giving me ample space to dance around in the cockpit while fishing. There is plenty of room to move around and she is pretty stable while the modified V and high bow really help with the ride. Of course, with the lighter weight I can still get bounced around a bit but I do have to get across that soft sand to launch.
There's no perfect boat, or situation, for everyone. What I wouldn't give to be able to back my trailer down a ramp and just float off. But then I wouldn't get to live where I do. That's what makes these forums so damn interesting, don't you t hink, taking different ideas and putting them together until you find what works best for the way you use your boat.
I'm gonna go fishing tomorrow, the tuna and dorado are only a few miles offshore. I'll let you know how it goes.
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JETTYWOLF
- Contributor/donator/Location Nazi
- Posts: 6074
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:11 pm
- 16
- Your location: JACKSONVILLE FL USA
- Location: Tree-hugger, USA...they call it FLA.
yeah, you go catch Tuna and Dolphin.
It's absolutely flooding with rain here right now. The winds have been 20 knots for 3 days, on a huge flood tide after the full moon. And I'm supposed to go too.
But not all that looking forward to it.
ENE winds 20 knots, incoming very high tide after we depart, is called KOD here...kiss of death. I don't pick the days though.
I wouldn't think a 23 Pacific couldn't be rolled into the surf or across the sand. I think my boats pretty dang light...I like that, except in a 20 knot wind moving at a very slow speed trying to anchor on a beer can sized spot on the bottom, in a 5 knot current going the same way........ :lol: :lol:
Is that your place in the photos. The flat roof mason building?
Looks like a Hurricane proof place, thick concrete or even concrete block and stucco should start being a standard around here, even a concrete roof!! But ya know how new houses are built....for women only
It's absolutely flooding with rain here right now. The winds have been 20 knots for 3 days, on a huge flood tide after the full moon. And I'm supposed to go too.
But not all that looking forward to it.
ENE winds 20 knots, incoming very high tide after we depart, is called KOD here...kiss of death. I don't pick the days though.
I wouldn't think a 23 Pacific couldn't be rolled into the surf or across the sand. I think my boats pretty dang light...I like that, except in a 20 knot wind moving at a very slow speed trying to anchor on a beer can sized spot on the bottom, in a 5 knot current going the same way........ :lol: :lol:
Is that your place in the photos. The flat roof mason building?
Looks like a Hurricane proof place, thick concrete or even concrete block and stucco should start being a standard around here, even a concrete roof!! But ya know how new houses are built....for women only
You're killin' me!
Believe me, there is no shortage of wind here. We have 20kt winds almost every afternoon. If I had a dime for every time some yahoo gringo asked me to take them fishing when the horizon looks like a roller coaster I would be retired. Well... retired again I mean.
Tomorrow looks like a good day so we are gonna hit it. Good luck to you, though. Post a report so we know how it went.
Believe me, there is no shortage of wind here. We have 20kt winds almost every afternoon. If I had a dime for every time some yahoo gringo asked me to take them fishing when the horizon looks like a roller coaster I would be retired. Well... retired again I mean.
Tomorrow looks like a good day so we are gonna hit it. Good luck to you, though. Post a report so we know how it went.