do alloy builders have floor storage?
" " " " insulated storage?
" " " use flotation?
" " " have baitwells ?
If not, why not ?
dennis
Alloy build questions
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kmorin
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- Location: Kenai, Alaska
Re: Alloy build questions
dennis, not sure what's actually being asked? If you're asking if there exist a welded aluminum boat with these features:
Holds for either catch or bait or longer term stowage of frozen goods can be insulated like in any other boat type of material. I've seen and built and modified (and repaired poorly done jobs) insulated holds below the decks, built in freezers in the galley(s) for stores and in the case of some keel cooled boats with cooling channels on the hull ; also insulated a few main fish holds to keep the catch off the coolers warmer plate areas.
The US CG regulations say that boats smaller than 20'LOA require level flotation so that swamped the boat remains at or above the surface of the water. So a builder's boat shorter than 20'LOA would need to have flotation provisions, and air voids are not accepted in the USCG reg.s that I know aobut? (I'm very often wrong on these points so corrections welcomed) If the boat were longer than 20' it could have various types of flotation to achieve different goals in the design. I have built with volume below the deck that will float the boat if swamped, and entire topsides lined inside with tankage that displacement adequately to float the boat if swamped. I've seen other builds that had both more and less; there are plenty of examples of welded alloy boats with different types of flotation.
Baitwells are just boxes with some plumbing, they're as common as dirt in Kansas and are probably installed where ever the owner wants?
Not sure what's up with the post? Having a bad day? Just the least bit of using the Search function could tell you all that? Not to mention a little reading on any of the major aluminum alloy builders' sites?
cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
When you say "floor" are you referring to deck spaces (?) or cabin soles? I've seen, built and modified stowage (storage are little buildings that you put behind the garage or rent) compartments in all sorts of locations on welded boats?dennis wrote:do alloy builders have floor storage?
" " " " insulated storage?
" " " use flotation?
" " " have baitwells ?
Holds for either catch or bait or longer term stowage of frozen goods can be insulated like in any other boat type of material. I've seen and built and modified (and repaired poorly done jobs) insulated holds below the decks, built in freezers in the galley(s) for stores and in the case of some keel cooled boats with cooling channels on the hull ; also insulated a few main fish holds to keep the catch off the coolers warmer plate areas.
The US CG regulations say that boats smaller than 20'LOA require level flotation so that swamped the boat remains at or above the surface of the water. So a builder's boat shorter than 20'LOA would need to have flotation provisions, and air voids are not accepted in the USCG reg.s that I know aobut? (I'm very often wrong on these points so corrections welcomed) If the boat were longer than 20' it could have various types of flotation to achieve different goals in the design. I have built with volume below the deck that will float the boat if swamped, and entire topsides lined inside with tankage that displacement adequately to float the boat if swamped. I've seen other builds that had both more and less; there are plenty of examples of welded alloy boats with different types of flotation.
Baitwells are just boxes with some plumbing, they're as common as dirt in Kansas and are probably installed where ever the owner wants?
Not sure what's up with the post? Having a bad day? Just the least bit of using the Search function could tell you all that? Not to mention a little reading on any of the major aluminum alloy builders' sites?
cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin
Re: Alloy build questions
I left out the word in as in in-floor storage which I see often in boat builds at Hull Truth, Walleye, Bass and Muskie boat websites. Having owned 6 boats and enjoyed fishing for over 40 years, I have
watched many boat builds. Alum or glass. Most fresh water builds have live wells and storage in floor. Most Hull Truth builds feature baitwells and in- floor storage.Most have flotation in floor. Many Hull truth builds show foam going into hulls. I care less about flotation as much as cutting down on noise...
I recently watched a you tube film about a 23' alum build out of Seattle.( Also many pics on Alloy Boats.) No flotation. The sales rep was walking around in the boat, which was beached. He may as well have had tap shoes on and been on a 55 gal barrel.
I'm puzzled why fishing boats sold on the NW coast do not advertise having standard features , IE: lockable in floor storage, flotation / insulation, and insulated baitwell / livewells. Re contacting boat builders, many companies have extremely poor customer service concerning questions about their products. 2 hours at a boat showroom in Edmunds, WA over 3 days resulted in a long e-mail to the manufacturer. Eventually a sales person called. He had few answers to my questions. 2 owners of the brand have pictured their boats on Alum Alloy boats. They supplied more information about the brand than the salesman. The boats are very nice and appeared very well built. I'd have one in a minute if I fished large water.
Also, when you're 70, any side of the bed is the right side to get up on!
dennis
watched many boat builds. Alum or glass. Most fresh water builds have live wells and storage in floor. Most Hull Truth builds feature baitwells and in- floor storage.Most have flotation in floor. Many Hull truth builds show foam going into hulls. I care less about flotation as much as cutting down on noise...
I recently watched a you tube film about a 23' alum build out of Seattle.( Also many pics on Alloy Boats.) No flotation. The sales rep was walking around in the boat, which was beached. He may as well have had tap shoes on and been on a 55 gal barrel.
I'm puzzled why fishing boats sold on the NW coast do not advertise having standard features , IE: lockable in floor storage, flotation / insulation, and insulated baitwell / livewells. Re contacting boat builders, many companies have extremely poor customer service concerning questions about their products. 2 hours at a boat showroom in Edmunds, WA over 3 days resulted in a long e-mail to the manufacturer. Eventually a sales person called. He had few answers to my questions. 2 owners of the brand have pictured their boats on Alum Alloy boats. They supplied more information about the brand than the salesman. The boats are very nice and appeared very well built. I'd have one in a minute if I fished large water.
Also, when you're 70, any side of the bed is the right side to get up on!
dennis
-
kmorin
- Donator 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24
- Posts: 1762
- Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:37 am
- 15
- Your location: Kenai, AK
- Location: Kenai, Alaska
Re: Alloy build questions
dennis,
sound insulation in metal boats is always a question of effort versus cost and resulting value? I'm so used to the sound on aluminum decks that I notice it when I'm on a big boat with a wood deck cover and there's no sound from steps on the deck. Some owners, and you might be one of those, will pay to have lots of insulation and sound deadening but others won't spend that amount 'just' to get some noise reduction.
Deck traffic sound is deadened, to some degree, by filling the voids below with foam but that costs plenty and if a person is trying to stretch their dollar to as many feet of LOA/boat they can get? a couple thousand in sound deadening foam might mean a couple feet of hull! So I'd say that any one off builder would be willing to offer sound attenuation - if any buyer was paying for that feature? Like different design features- if the owner will pay, usually the builder will include that item?
Fresh water boats, unless they're jet sleds don't offer as much gain for the money spent in welded aluminum as salt water boats. The difference in what the two fisheries/sea's do to boats is usually where the heavier welded metal comes into its own. Fresh water features may not be widely available as standard features in salt water boats because those items aren't as widely purchased in offshore boats? Live bait wells sure don't do much for halibut fishing 30 miles from the beach! But as I mentioned, any one-off builder would offer costs to put a live bait well in their boat- I'm not saying that the larger production builders can offer that change in all designs due to investments in design, cutting, forming and production assembly.
Why don't builders do better advertising? I'd guess, and this is just speculation on my part- they don't need too? What I mean is they seem to have waiting lists for their boats, mostly advance orders, that allow them to concentrate on building and not to be as concerned with advertising?
Why don't builder's have better customer service of more knowledgeable sales people? I'm going to guess this is the same reason as above... they're doing fine without it? Why don't they serve Starbucks espresso's to anyone who drops by to talk boats? Maybe the same reason? The builders may be doing OK economically and don't feel any loss of business without developing these services?
I used to run a business that had to have trained (expensive) and experienced (more expensive) technical sales people to call on oil and gas client engineers and technical people to sell measuring and automation instrumentation. This wasn't a choice- the business HAD to have someone to go to clients and educated them, convince them, and then support their purchases in ORDER to have orders. But that doesn't seem to the case as much in welded aluminum boats in the PNW? In their case it appears that the clients are interested in owning a boat of this class and therefore they beat a path to the builders' doors?
One important thing to notice here at the Forum that might contribute to the conditions of the market you've noticed; the owners are very well informed boat owners. What I mean is that the welded metal boat owner may be going to his builder with such a complete set of firm requirements that he shops builders to find that one which comes closest to 'his' boat? That implies, if I'm accurate in my suggestion, that when a welded boat buyer approaches a builder they may be more informed, more exact in their requirements and specifications eliminating a need to do outside sales?
Glad you're still getting up, regardless of which side of the bed.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
sound insulation in metal boats is always a question of effort versus cost and resulting value? I'm so used to the sound on aluminum decks that I notice it when I'm on a big boat with a wood deck cover and there's no sound from steps on the deck. Some owners, and you might be one of those, will pay to have lots of insulation and sound deadening but others won't spend that amount 'just' to get some noise reduction.
Deck traffic sound is deadened, to some degree, by filling the voids below with foam but that costs plenty and if a person is trying to stretch their dollar to as many feet of LOA/boat they can get? a couple thousand in sound deadening foam might mean a couple feet of hull! So I'd say that any one off builder would be willing to offer sound attenuation - if any buyer was paying for that feature? Like different design features- if the owner will pay, usually the builder will include that item?
Fresh water boats, unless they're jet sleds don't offer as much gain for the money spent in welded aluminum as salt water boats. The difference in what the two fisheries/sea's do to boats is usually where the heavier welded metal comes into its own. Fresh water features may not be widely available as standard features in salt water boats because those items aren't as widely purchased in offshore boats? Live bait wells sure don't do much for halibut fishing 30 miles from the beach! But as I mentioned, any one-off builder would offer costs to put a live bait well in their boat- I'm not saying that the larger production builders can offer that change in all designs due to investments in design, cutting, forming and production assembly.
Why don't builders do better advertising? I'd guess, and this is just speculation on my part- they don't need too? What I mean is they seem to have waiting lists for their boats, mostly advance orders, that allow them to concentrate on building and not to be as concerned with advertising?
Why don't builder's have better customer service of more knowledgeable sales people? I'm going to guess this is the same reason as above... they're doing fine without it? Why don't they serve Starbucks espresso's to anyone who drops by to talk boats? Maybe the same reason? The builders may be doing OK economically and don't feel any loss of business without developing these services?
I used to run a business that had to have trained (expensive) and experienced (more expensive) technical sales people to call on oil and gas client engineers and technical people to sell measuring and automation instrumentation. This wasn't a choice- the business HAD to have someone to go to clients and educated them, convince them, and then support their purchases in ORDER to have orders. But that doesn't seem to the case as much in welded aluminum boats in the PNW? In their case it appears that the clients are interested in owning a boat of this class and therefore they beat a path to the builders' doors?
One important thing to notice here at the Forum that might contribute to the conditions of the market you've noticed; the owners are very well informed boat owners. What I mean is that the welded metal boat owner may be going to his builder with such a complete set of firm requirements that he shops builders to find that one which comes closest to 'his' boat? That implies, if I'm accurate in my suggestion, that when a welded boat buyer approaches a builder they may be more informed, more exact in their requirements and specifications eliminating a need to do outside sales?
Glad you're still getting up, regardless of which side of the bed.
Cheers,
Kevin Morin
Kenai, AK
kmorin